Member Since: 23 Jan 2019
Location: Manchester
Posts: 150
1st Trip to Europe – Advice
The Disco is nearly in a place now where I have everything I need to take it on an extended road trip, so I'm thinking of a 1-2 week trip down to the Schwarzwald in South Germany, as it seems a relatively easy drive.
The plan would be to sleep in the back of the Disco on a mattress at campsites / wild camping if appropriate. Would only be me and the wife so the rear seats wouldn't be needed. Ideally I would like to take the dog as well, but I'm unsure if I can or how easy this is to do.
While I am well travelled in Europe, I have never driven abroad/in Europe or taken a car on a ferry. So does anyone have any advice for a first time euro trip? Any places en route to Germany that people would recommend staying or stopping off?
Also any recommendations for Euro breakdown cover if the inevitable happens
19th Jun 2019 10:54 am
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Wirral, UK
Posts: 3067
Sounds like great fun, you should go for it. My thoughts are that although lots of people do sleep in the Disco (and someone will be along shortly to frighten you with tales of CO poisoning) why not just throw in a small tent? You could go to somewhere like Decathlon and pick up a small pop up tent (up and down in seconds), and a couple of foam mats and even a couple of little bits like a lantern or even some cheap folding chairs for well under £100. You don't need anything fancy.
This would mean that you don't have to try and rearrange or store your luggage, cool box or anything else outside your vehicle when sleeping, and I'm sure it won't slow you down in the slightest. If you end up anywhere for a couple of days you'll have a base camp too. Plus it will give you a bit more room for the dog.
First time me and SWMBO toured France and Spain it was with a decathlon pop-up 3-man tent with added ventilation, it was up and down in seconds, took up no room inside (it's just a big flat disc when folded). We had a lot of gear in the car (full cooking, fridge, water, power, recovery gear, outdoor gear) etc.
Just my thoughts. D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
2018 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography - Gone to someone with less sense and more time to enjoy it
2016 Toyota Hilux Invincible - Liberating experience
19th Jun 2019 11:20 am
jaqoda
Member Since: 23 Jan 2019
Location: Manchester
Posts: 150
Yeh good shout, I would probably throw in a small pop up just to be on the safe side!
19th Jun 2019 11:26 am
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Wirral, UK
Posts: 3067
Some other random thoughts that I will add to as I come up with them are:
- Keep your car topped up with fuel, don't let it run low
- Take jump leads
- Get into the habit of keeping a separate car key on both you and SWMBO - hidden away safely
- On the ferry, turn off internal alarm sensors so the alarm doesn't go off with the swell
- Make sure you have all the necessary bulb kit/breathalysers/easily-accessible hi-viz etc
- On long mileage days get into the habit of doing a quick visual around the vehicle before and after - tyres, fluids, etc
- You'll be really grateful to yourself if you get into the discipline of making a flask of coffee in the morning when you're doing your morning brew, about 10:30am when there is no services in sight for miles
- Download a good podcast series or a few before you leave, good for streaming on long drives when you're not up for music
- Take lots of photos
- Don't forget in most french campsite you need your own loo rollD4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
2018 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography - Gone to someone with less sense and more time to enjoy it
2016 Toyota Hilux Invincible - Liberating experience
19th Jun 2019 11:57 am
latnutgub
Member Since: 25 Aug 2011
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 170
Make a note about sticking to speed limits. French speed cameras do not appear on your navigation devices, German ones are nearly always on the entrance and exits to towns and villages. There are speed limits on Autobahns, stick to them. A favorite speed check is on the entrance to the ferry ports as people rush for their ferries. Travel at night if you are heading south traffic is heavy around the big cities during the day. For money use an ATM at a local bank, not at the ferry port.
19th Jun 2019 12:10 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72785
And don’t forget they drive on the funny side of the road. When you think “we’ve got this driving on the right malarkie licked” you need to be very, very careful. That’s when you’ll find stuff on the same side as you but coming towards you.
Last edited by DSL on 19th Jun 2019 11:06 pm. Edited 1 time in total
19th Jun 2019 12:12 pm
DrewLR4
Member Since: 17 Jan 2018
Location: South Devon
Posts: 173
Re your dog, all you need to travel is a pet passport. Cost about £110 including the jabs. The passport is issued straight away but you need to wait 21 before traveling for the jabs to take effect.
On return you will need a vet check and flea and tick treatment which can usually be done by a vat at the port and needs to be done within 24hrs of your crossing usually about £35. IID Tool
Disco 1 tdi traded up
Disco 1 V8 LPG traded up
RR P38 V8 LPG Melted
Disco 2 tdi - Divorce settlement
Shocking amount of mid life crisis sports cars.
X5 - Bad decision
Jeep Liberty - Now in Cyprus
Crisis over and back in a Disco
19th Jun 2019 12:22 pm
jaqoda
Member Since: 23 Jan 2019
Location: Manchester
Posts: 150
This is all really helpful guys, please keep it coming if you have any more.
there are so many threads on here about what to take ... perhaps they should be combined into a wiki page ?
19th Jun 2019 1:42 pm
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10297
A chap named Graham (user: wasntbtf) on the caravantalk forum put this lot togther for France - maybe add to it for other foreign parts Its a bit lengthy but seems to cover a lot.
I have collated the latest information from the law (principally Code de la Route), Statutory Instruments (Décret /Arrêté) and Ministerial Guidance, together with our experience over the past 15 years of living in France.
If you do run into a problem, establishing communication in French will help to smooth the way. Many French do speak English and will be prepared to meet you more than half way.
Remember that even for a simple breach of the law in terms of not having the proper equipment (warning triangle or safety jacket for example) you are liable to a 135 Euro fine.
Documents
You must carry your passport with you at all times and have your driving licence and vehicle documents with you when driving. In reality the French police are a lot more practical these days about carrying the originals provided you can take the originals to a police station on demand.
Every person travelling with you must have their own valid passport, including children.
You must have the registration document (V5), the MOT certificate if required and a valid certificate of motor insurance. They won't be interested what level of insurance cover you have, just that you are insured to drive in France, so you need to be able to show the territorial limits that apply; your Green Card will do this.
If don't own the vehicle and/or trailer and especially if it isn't your name on the V5 you must have an authorisation from the owner, preferably in French, to use it/them.
If you are towing a caravan that is CRiS registered it is a good idea to have the registration document with you, although it is quite likely that a French policeman won't recognise it as in France any trailer of 750kg or more has to be registered just like a car and has a separate vehicle registration document.
Everyone should have a European Health Insurance Card. In practice you may well have to pay for treatment and then reclaim what you have paid out when you get home. The EHIC isn't a substitute for insurance cover but it does get you into the system so you can be treated.
Even though original documents need to be carried, it is advisable to take photocopies including your passports and credit cards, leaving a set with somebody that you can contact in an emergency and taking a set with you separate from the originals, in case anything gets lost or stolen.
Equipping your Car
Your headlights need to be adjusted/switched to the European pattern (dipping straight down rather than to the left) or have appropriate deflectors for the headlights so that you do not dazzle other motorists. Home grown solutions with electrical tape might not pass muster under a gendarme's scrutiny and could also damage you lights.
If you don't have Euro registration plates (Blue panel with a circle of 12 stars and GB on it) you will need to have have a GB plate on your vehicle and caravan.
The following are legal requirements:
Emergency triangle for the car and another if you have a trailer or caravan with gross laden weight of 500kg or more.
Reflective safety jacket for the driver and this must be kept somewhere accessible to the driver while in the car (door pocket, glove box for instance).
When towing fit extending/additional mirrors if you need them to be able to see a vehicle that is overtaking and to eliminate any "blind spot" caused by the caravan.
No speed camera notifications on your Sat Nav or other means of detecting speed cameras.
NF approved breathalyser kit, see below about the current situation regarding penalties.
The following are not legally required in France but are prudent precautions and may be obligatory in other countries:
Fire extinguisher
First aid kit.
Replacement bulbs - although if you haven't got them or don't know how to replace a bulb you may find that you are not allowed to proceed on your journey in the event of being stopped because of a bulb failure.
Spare wheel - again you may find that you are not allowed to proceed if one of your tyres does not conform to the law (tread depth, pressure etc.) and you can't replace it. A tyre pump is a good idea as well.
Reflective safety jacket for each passenger
Replacement fuses.
Spare driving glasses
Driving Licences
The earliest you can pass the test to drive a car in France is 18 years of age. So even if you passed your driving test in the UK at the age of 17, you still cannot drive in France until you are 18 and have an unrestricted licence (a provisional licence is not enough).
Provided your full licence was issued by an EU state or one of the other countries that France has an agreement with, you don't need an International Driving Permit otherwise you must have one. In 50 odd years of being taken to France or driving in France myself I have never come across a problem with a British driving licence not even pre-EEC days and the dark red booklet style UK licence.
If you have had your full driving licence for less than three years you must abide by the speed limits defined for probationary drivers; N. B. two years only applies if you obtained your licence under the French learner driver scheme Conduite Accompagnée (accompanied driving):
110 km/h in place of 130 kph autoroute limit;
100 km/h in place of a lower autoroute limit and on dual carriageways;
80 km/h on other roads.
Probationary drivers are also obliged to show an "A" plate at the rear of the vehicle, probably at the back of the trailer/caravan if towing (one of the things I will check at our local Gendarmerie) and an "A" plate must only be displayed when the probationary driver is driving.
Rule of the road
Don't forget that give way to traffic coming from the right still applies unless the road markings/signs show otherwise.
If you are driving a vehicle or vehicle/trailer combination of 3500 kg or more you must leave 50 metres between you and vehicles in front.
Pedestrians have priority provided they are showing a clear intention to cross the road. This is not restricted to pedestrian crossings. However, if there is a pedestrian crossing within 50 metres pedestrians are obliged to use it to cross the road.
The rules for positioning and signalling when negotiating a roundabout are basically the same as they are in the UK although you wouldn't think so. Roundabouts didn't appear to any great extent in France until the 70s/80s and there are many drivers on the road who have passed their test without ever encountering one. Caution at roundabouts and a certain scepticism on what everybody else is signalling/doing is prudent.
Speed Limits
Speed limits are varied and at times confusing. The basic rules out of town are:
Péages and other autoroutes where indicated, are 130 kph, but this is reduced in bad weather to 110 km/h.
Autoroutes not signed for 130 km/h and dual carriageways with a central reservation are 110 km/h (100 kph in bad weather).
Main roads are 80 km/h since a reduction from 90km/h in 2018.
The above speed limits are for vehicles of less than 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MTM) even if towing a trailer/caravan provided that the Gross Train Weight (GTW) specified for the towing vehicle is less than 3,500kg.
In a town or village no matter how small (between the sign at the entry through to the exit sign) a maximum of 50 km/h applies unless otherwise indicated, you may or may not get 50 km/h limit signs or repeaters but the limit is there nonetheless. The exception to this is the Paris périphérique where an 80 km/h limit applies.
There may well be a 70 km/h limit before/after the town/village and there are often 40 or 30 km/h limits, particularly near schools, hospitals etc.
If the GTW specified for the towing vehicle is 3,500kg or greater the out of town limits become:
90 km/h on autoroutes
90 km/h on dual carriageways with a central reservation
80 km/h elsewhere
In town a maximum speed of 50 km/h applies even if a higher limit is indicated with the exception of the Paris périphérique where the 80 km/h limit still applies.
It seems possible that basing this limit on the GTW may not have been intended and should have been based on the MAM of the towing vehicle plus the Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM) of the trailer. A similar definition used to determine what class of licence is required to tow has just been changed. However, there is no indication that this definition as regards maximum speed allowed will be changed.
Checks on vehicle loading, tyre pressures etc. whether towing or not are commonplace along autoroutes and major roads on tourist routes during the summer.
Note. Even if your registration document doesn't show the different weights (MAM, GTW etc.) the French authorities have access to them for all cars that have a European wide homolugation at least. My UK registered car only had the service weight on the V5. When I imported it to France all the other weights appeared on my French registration document.
A vehicle subject to these limits must show that they are, this is done by affixing at the rear two white discs showing the figures 90 and 80 respectively.
If you are towing a caravan you also need to know the maximum speed it is homolugated for and not exceed that. For instance 'vans originally homolugated in France will have a maximum speed rating of 100km/h, 'vans from Germany will have a speed rating of 100 km/h unless they don't meet certain German stability and safety regulations when they will be rated at 80 km/h.
If visibility is less than 50 metres a limit of 50 km/h overrides all other higher limits.
If you are on a three lane autoroute or dual carriageway an outfit weighing 3,500kg or more must not use the leftmost (fast) lane, there is a minimum speed of 80km/h which applies to the middle lane. The 80 kph minimum speed also applies to the leftmost (fast) lane on a two lane autoroute or dual carriageway.
Confiscation of your driving licence
Your licence may be confiscated by the police for up to 72 hours for: driving under the influence of alcohol or apparent influence of drugs/alcohol; exceeding the speed limit by 40km/h or more; or if you are involved in a fatal accident and the police suspect that you have committed an offence such as speeding or ignoring the rules relating to overtaking or priority at a junction.
If nobody else is qualified or able to drive the vehicle will be impounded.
Speed Cameras
The French authorities are determined to curb excessively fast driving, if for no other reason than the number of accidents it causes and the cost, both direct and indirect, to the country.
The speed cameras currently in use are either:
fixed speed cameras; signposting of these had been stopped and existing signposting progressively removed but in typical Gallic style the current government has decided to reverse this policy and install signposting for all new fixed speed cameras. There are about 2200 installed;
average speed cameras are starting to be installed on main routes in dangerous areas (bends, descents . .) or where an accident may have disproportionate consequences (tunnels, viaducts). There are about 40 in place;
mobile speed cameras operating from the back of an unmarked estate car (often a Renault Laguna), or less frequently a policeman with a hand-held speed gun. There are nearly 1000 operating;
The latest is unmarked cars with a speed camera that can check speeds while they are under way. They use infra-red flashes so you don't know you have been photographed. There is a slightly greater tolerance allowed; 10 km/h for 100km/h or less, 10% for greater than 100km/h as opposed to 5 km/h and 5% for other speed cameras. There are currently 20.
There are also advisory speed cameras which show your speed on a panel as you approach, many of these, but not all, are followed by fixed speed camera. Nearly 2000 have been installed.
If you are stopped for speeding you can be fined on the spot and the fines have to be paid in cash there and then if you cannot prove that you are domiciled or working in France. If you cannot pay your car can be impounded.
If you are caught by a speed camera don't think you will automatically get away with it because you have a foreign registered car, you could find a penalty notice waiting for you when you get home.
Driving Lights
You must use side lights and dipped headlights at least at night or in poor visibility.
Front and rear fog lights can only be used when it is foggy or snowing (not when it is raining no matter how heavily).
You may use the front fog lights outside towns/villages as driving lights. You must switch them off if you meet, follow or overtake another vehicle.
People will flash their lights rapidly if they want the right of way or that they are coming up quickly behind you. These days this practice is not the courtesy that it once was and is most often reserved to those drivers who drive too fast and too close so the best thing to do is just get out of their way.
The French may use hand gestures or a single headlamp flash to indicate that you should proceed ahead of them.
Seat Belts
Every passenger must wear a seatbelt where fitted unless the passenger is obviously unable to or medically excused from wearing one. Passengers (children included) cannot share a seat belt. It is illegal for a child under the age of 10 to be in the front passenger seat unless: there aren't any rear seats; none of the rear seats have seat belts; all the rear seats are already occupied by children under 10. There are other rules governing the use of booster cushions and rear facing baby seats.
The 10 years old rule is not absolute but also takes into account the size/weight of the child (bigger child but under 10 or smaller child who is over 10 for instance).
Drinking and Driving
The legal limit of alcohol in the blood is . 5g per litre. In practice you should think about a policy of not drinking and driving to be on the safe side, as the penalties for drink driving are severe, including having your licence confiscated. If you are above . 8g per litre (the UK limit) you can have your licence confiscated, fined 4,500 Euros and even imprisoned.
The police often carry out spot checks and random breath tests.
The situation as regards carrying the breathalyser kits is that the law has come into effect but there is an indefinite suspension of any penalties for not complying. Considerable concern has been expressed about what the law is trying to achieve and the wastage caused by breathalyser kits which are time expired after 2 years.
We carry them but have never been asked to show that we do, but it is not worth the potential hassle just to save a couple of Euros.
Breakdowns
If you happen to breakdown whilst in France, you should switch on your hazard flashers, put on your fluorescent safety vest and put out at least one warning triangle at least 30 metres from the scene so that it is visible 100 metres from the vehicle. For example, if you have broken down less than 100 metres after a bend the warning triangle should be put out before the bend.
The exceptions to putting out the warning triangle are on an autoroute, if you are stopped on the hard shoulder and not obstructing the carriageway or if doing so would put your life in danger.
If you have a trailer or caravan with a gross laden weight of 500kg or more and you have to leave it by the roadside for any reason you also have to mark it with a warning triangle in the same way.
If you are on an autoroute or dual carriageway keep yourself and your passengers behind the crash barriers. If possible make sure everybody gets out on the side furthest away from the traffic. If you breakdown in the fast lane get everybody out of the vehicle and between the barriers on the central reservation, do not try and cross to the hard shoulder.
If you need assistance and you are on an autoroute then you phone for help using one of the emergency telephones (every 2 kilometres along the autoroute). Even if you are in an autoroute service area, you must still call for assistance using an emergency phone or asking at the services.
Autoroute assistance charges are fixed by the government. The breakdown companies that can operate on the autoroutes have to be licensed by the autoroute companies. Even if you have your own breakdown/emergency cover you will have to wait until you are off the autoroute before this cover can be used.
Accidents
In France you must provide assistance to a person in distress and doing so does not put your life or the lives of others in danger. Use an emergency phone to call for help or use your mobile and phone 112. Make sure you can describe where you are and what has happened, the appropriate emergency services will be sent to the scene. This obligation is part of the general Penal Code and not restricted to traffic accidents, failure to do so can result in prosecution and a substantial fine.
If you are involved in an accident and it is serious enough then call the police straight away, if somebody has been injured you must call the police. Having an accident statement form and completing that will make it easier when it comes to notifying your insurance company as will any photographs you take.
Use your hazard flashers, fluorescent jacket and warning triangle in the same way that you would for a breakdown.
I hope this helps.Volvo XC90 B5 Plus Dark
Gone - MY18 D5 HSE - Corris on 22's with Black Pack
Now gone - MY16 D4 SE Tech, Loire Blue, Almond Leather, Privacy, plus some other goodies.
Old - MY12 D4 SDV6 XS Auto - Ipanema Sand with Almond Leather - Plus other niceties, and D4.com sticker
Older - D3 TDV6 XS Auto - Lugano Teal with Almond Leather, 20" Stormers, Shiny Tailpipes, DVD/TV - and obligatory D3 sticker
Ancient - D3 TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony, 20" Stormers, satnav & DVD
19th Jun 2019 3:00 pm
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Wirral, UK
Posts: 3067
This is a relly useful list, didn't knwo some of these.
Regarding
Quote:
Even though original documents need to be carried, it is advisable to take photocopies including your passports and credit cards, leaving a set with somebody that you can contact in an emergency and taking a set with you separate from the originals, in case anything gets lost or stolen.
I always have high resolution scans of all my important documents in a secure cloud storage location which could be accessed and if needs be printed wherever I can find a facility to do so (being mindful of the risk of accessing and printing in an internet cafe, for example)D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
2018 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography - Gone to someone with less sense and more time to enjoy it
2016 Toyota Hilux Invincible - Liberating experience
19th Jun 2019 3:29 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72785
19th Jun 2019 11:04 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8087
DSL wrote:
And don’t forget they drive on the funny side of the road. When you think “we’ve got this driving on the right malarkie licked” you need to be very, very careful. That’s when you’ll find stuff on the same side as you but coming towards you.
One simple tip; put a ring of electrical tape on the side of the steering wheel at 2 o’clock or 10 o’clock to correspond with the side of the road you are driving on, including UK when you return.
It is very easy to forget particularly after taking a break It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
20th Jun 2019 8:30 am
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Wirral, UK
Posts: 3067
My dad always used to wear his watch on the wrong wrist to remind him when driving abroad. It would drive me mad, I just try to remember
Only ever got it wrong once, coming out of a petrol station that felt like you'd just filter out into the left lane instead of having to cross over to the right. It did give me a shock.D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
2018 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography - Gone to someone with less sense and more time to enjoy it
2016 Toyota Hilux Invincible - Liberating experience
Garmin's Lane Assist or TomTom's Advanced Lane Guidance can be a help in these circumstances.
NJSSAm I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
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Its a bit lengthy but seems to cover a lot.
