Car dies when hot and won´t resart-after engine replacement
Hello everyone,
I'm new to the forum and I have a problem with my Discovery 3 built in 2008. In February 2022 I got stuck with an engine failure on the Autobahn with 230.000 km. I decided to have the motor replaced. As part of the engine swap, the turbocharger, both EGR valves and the torque converter were replaced. The injectors have been overhauled. On the first test drive, the fuel pump in the tank broke. The tank was cleaned and a new pump with filter installed. The Discovery drives great until after 20-30 minutes the following errors are displayed in the on-board computer: Transmission error; Engine system failure, air suspension failure, handbrake failure. The car now drives a few more meters in emergency mode before it dies. The vehicle can then only be started again after the vehicle has stood for a few hours. The engine spins but won`t start. The vehicle can also no longer be started if it is parked while warm without the error occurring(short drive then, won´t drive longer than 30 minutes). This error occures every drive without exception. After that we changed workshops because they wanted to change the mechatronics of the transmission. The second workshop found the high-pressure pump to be the cause and exchanged it for a overhauled one. But the problem still persists. The workshop now wants to replace the engine control unit.
After qiet somemoney invested, are there any tipps what the cause oft the errors can be? I think that the overhauled high pressure fuel pump could be faulty or the pressure valve at high pressure fuel pump.
I attached some pictures of the days where it was a great pleasure to drive my discovery.
Click image to enlarge
2nd Feb 2023 8:53 pm
Kilovolt
Member Since: 29 Jun 2015
Location: South Derbyshire
Posts: 1020
Great pictures
As an electrical engineer, I might suggest you have a faulty connection or maybe one susceptible to heat, which gives you high resistance. The cheapest thing you can do now is to disconnect and inspect every engine bay connector you get access to, inspect them carefully, spray them with contact cleaner and make sure they seat home correctly as you put them back. That is something you can do and will cost you very little in terms of parts. The connectors at the back of the engine bay where the engine harness connects back into the Central Junction Box (CJB) harness are known to be very difficult to reconnect. Check and double-check.
Failing that you will need a live diagnostic unit like https://www.gap-diagnostic.com/ so you can start to watch voltages and fuel values.
I have built several race engines over the years and the number of times people blame an ECU and it never is. If the ECU worked before it is very unlikely you have done something to harm it. They are quite tough. Make that your last resort. They are expensive and come with all their own problems when coding them to your car.
I get that this is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Patience and a methodical approach will be your best friend on this occasion.
Good luck "Track day running - Don't put your foot back on the accelerator until your absolutely sure you don't have to take it off again"
Current Ride: D4 XS Commercial Baltic Blue SDV6 fully loaded with heated everything
Track Days: BMW E36 M3 Evolution MY 1996 (3.2 Litre 377 BHP sat in 1,250 Kgs of car, with a pro safety cage and some serious braking power)
3rd Feb 2023 5:43 pm
loanrangie
Member Since: 18 Jun 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 599
Also look at heat susceptible sensors like the cam angle and crank angle sensors, you need to get the codes read to help pinpoint the error.
3rd Feb 2023 11:45 pm
Russell
Member Since: 24 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
Get the codes properly read and then clear down take car for drive and get codes read again to see what comes up fresh and the same as previous, then post them on here.MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
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4th Feb 2023 8:04 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10360
These engines were available in EU3 and Eu4 versions I believe. There are differences in the fuelling system.
Were all these items from your origional engine, when rebuilt?
I assume EU3 and 4 have different ecu's.
I wonder if the crank sensor ring has been installed correctly?
4th Feb 2023 11:10 am
Globetrotter448
Member Since: 21 Mar 2017
Location: Londonderry NSW
Posts: 1782
A simple check when it stops after 30 mins is to check the schrader valve and see if you have fuel. That will be a simple check of pumps and filter. You did change the filter
Hello everyone,
many thanks for the suggestions. I will check these in the next few days.
My Discovery is finally back at home, but still not drivable. The fault seems to be relative to the fuel pressure.
It shows the following error codes:
P2290-00 Injektor control pressure to low
U-2023-86 Fault received from external node
U0416-86 Invalid data received from vehicle dynamics control module
C1A07-62 Cross articulation
U0401-94 Invalid data received from engine control module/powertrain module
U0402-94 Invalid data received from transmission control module
U0416-94 Invalid data received from vehicle dynamics control module
U0421-94 Invalid data received from ride level control module
U0100-87 Lost communication with engine control module/Powertrain modul „A“
The last workshop also got the following code:
P0191-23 Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
The error occured after 13km (8miles) of driving. The car cuts off and wont restart afterwars until it‘s fully cooled down. After it is cooled down the eingine starts without hesistation. If the car is switched off before the errors are shown, the Engine spins free but won´t fire.
Fuel filter was fitted before the test drive (original Land Rover). The pressure at the schrader valve is the same with and without the car starting.
Worst thing…car has to be towed home with my dads Jeep Wrangler…..
Thanks for any advice!
30th Apr 2023 2:57 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Never seen a reaction on PeteK his question….
What year of donor engine was used? What whas the donor?
HpFp? Fuel rails? Sensors? Transplanted or not?
MY 2006 engine has different fuel ancillary’s than MY 2007 or later engine on a LR
Fuel Ancillary’s from a JAG 2008 are different than a 2008 LR engine though
My opinion, you need to know exactly what parts are (re)used and if they really “belong” together..
Only then, after that thoroughly check, fault codes become of interestBest regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
But the engine is an overhauled one from Land Rover. The hpfp was original at the beginning but was changed with an overhauled one because of this problem. The injectors are the original ones which have been overhauled too. Fuel rail with pressure sensor is already changed with an original LR one.
Hello everybody,
after an short brake sourcing an IID TOOL we are back and try to repair our Discovery. We could solve some error. The remainig error Codes are the following:
P2290-00 Injector control pressure too low
U0100-87 Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain module A- Bus Signal/Message failure- missing message
We looked at the live data and recorded the following:
The PCV is operated but the Pressure is not rising and ping the car goes into limp mode. When i try to restart the car it is only cranking and won`t reach the 150 bar to start the car. It happens after about 7 miles or 20-22 Minutes of drive. Restart is only possible after 2-4 hours waiting.
We also found some what we think abnormalities in the low pressure system. With the engine switched off, we got 4,5PSI at the schrader valve and an draw of 2,5 A. Withe the engine at idle we got around 2,5 Psi which seems to be a little low. While steady driving 30mls/h the pressure drops to zero.
We also checked the oil temperatur and everything looked normal.
Thank you!
2nd Jul 2023 7:54 pm
Mastertech
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 126
You should have 5-6 psi at the schrader valve at idle and that will drop with rpm/ load but should stay in the positive pressure range. What do you have when the engine won’t start?
The values at the schrader valve are identical when the car is starting and when it is not starting. Around 4.5psi.
3rd Jul 2023 6:47 pm
Mastertech
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 126
Then I think you need to look elsewhere for the issue. You have a volume control valve on the fuel rail and it will have an electrical connector on it. Unplug it and detach the rubber fuel pipe from the fuel rail, the one right next to the volume control valve, it’s the fuel return pipe. Clamp it off and put a spare length of pipe onto the fuel rail and into a bottle. When trying to start you should have no fuel coming out of the fuel rail at this connection. If you do the volume control valve has failed/ is sticking.
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