Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
 
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My judgement would be that the UTCCR is unlikely to be of any help here.
Firstly because it would be extremely difficult to demonstrate that the absence of the LED lighting you thought you were getting caused a significant imbalance in your rights, and second it relates only to the contract that you have entered into (which is with the dealer, not LR).
Further, LR does "reserve the right to alter specifications and equipment without notice". Further, they point out that "dealerships are not agents of Land Rover and have absolutely no authority to bind Land Rover to any express or implied undertaking or representation".
Finally, and against the point made by Russell, the reality is that the xenon lights are not standard on the UK XS. The price/spec list is very clear about that.
I agree that the misinformation is shocking, but there are probably plenty of things that can be pointed to to demonstrate that LEDs were never going to be there on the halogen units.
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 15th Oct 2009 5:54 pm |
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DrLex
Member Since: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Ciderspace [Oi be in Zummerset]
Posts: 4863
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John,
I'd be more convinced if you could spell judgment. Too much time in the land of the midnight sun and extraneous vowel?
 Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Member of Club Med Sucks
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| 15th Oct 2009 8:07 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Winger wrote:My judgement would be that the UTCCR is unlikely to be of any help here.
Firstly because it would be extremely difficult to demonstrate that the absence of the LED lighting you thought you were getting caused a significant imbalance in your rights, and second it relates only to the contract that you have entered into (which is with the dealer, not LR).
Sorry Winger, have to disagree. It is nothing to do with the lights creating an "imbalance", it is the general terms of the contract (eg right to unilaterally vary etc) being unfair to a consumer who has no opportunity to negotiate those terms that is the issue with the legislation.
Also, remember there are TWO contracts involved - your purchase contract with the dealer (and the sales literature produced by LR is incorporated into that by implication although LR themselves are not directly a party to your contract) plus you then also have a direct contract with LandRover in the form of your 3 year warranty (& that's where you can hit LR directly if they fail to fix defects or features that they have failed to implement properly)
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| 15th Oct 2009 8:29 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
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And there was I thinking you were the typical Brit, Doc. If your judgement is that judgment is spelt thus, then you have been reading too many of those Yank novels or have your Word spell checker language set wrong!
The British English, as opposed to American English, spelling dates from 13CN, with a degree of French influence.
Rather than be the judge, I will simply rest my case.
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| 15th Oct 2009 8:30 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
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No problem, Ecosse. Everyone is entitled to their own view and mine is that there is no leg to stand on and what you suggest is not relevant.
The FBH was an entirely different issue - not least as there was supposedly a way of setting the thing from the Settings Menu (hence the radio workaround) and even a light on the dash to show when it was on. That was a LR cock up. The LEDs are not, and I would not want people to get their spirits up on a non-starter.
The UK spec is clear: XS has halogen lamps; LEDs come with xenons. End of.
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| 15th Oct 2009 8:34 pm |
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Bill Wright
Member Since: 03 Nov 2007
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 3254
 
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I refer my honourable friend (Winger) to the earlier comment referring to page 5 of the current LR Discovery 4 Brochure.  Surely it is mis-representation.
Perhaps judgement should be reserved.
Bill Wright Never take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
D4 SDV6 SE Tech Kaikoura Stone MY15.
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| 15th Oct 2009 8:38 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
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Your interpretation of the page 5 statement is that being non-specific it applies to the whole range - on which point I agree with you. However, the catch all at the end of the brochure covers them, and LR could easily say that the comment in the brochure was not whole range specific, and our interpretation is wrong.
Despite what it says there, when you start looking elsewhere it becomes obvious that LEDs are linked to Xenon headlamps. The XS doesn't have Xenons as standard.
All the points made about inept marketing guff are very well made - they are an inconsistent, disorganised shower at LR. No dispute. But that doesn't mean that all those who thought they were going to get LEDs and didn't are suddenly going to get them. To the contrary, the absence of LED bulbs in the halogen units suggests that there was no intention the make the night-time signature available with the halogen lamps.
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| 15th Oct 2009 8:46 pm |
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MartinR
Member Since: 27 Jan 2008
Location: Oxon
Posts: 708
 
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Just found this thread on taking the D3 lamps apart:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/post485496.html#485496
I imagine you could follow the same procedure to get at the D4 lamps and fit your own string of LEDs!
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| 17th Oct 2009 9:17 am |
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buellbeast
Member Since: 30 Jul 2008
Location: Exile
Posts: 1885
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Legislation on vehicle lighting is changing. From January 2011, EU regulations mean that all new cars in the UK registered after that date will require EU approved daylight running lights (DRLs).
Wait for the 2011 cars and it'll have to come as standard by law 
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| 17th Oct 2009 10:44 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
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I'm sure on lessor spec D4's it will just mean the side lights are on all the time... and they will continue to penny pinch and dilute their 'new signature face' for halogen lit vehicles.
Crazy. All that 'new signature face' marketing bull from LR, and they reserve it for just those with the highest spec D4's only or those willing to pay through the nose for xenon headlights as an option 
I find it surprising LR have done this TBH, its not like its a unique to LR feature fitting LED's into the headlights.
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| 17th Oct 2009 11:37 pm |
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buellbeast
Member Since: 30 Jul 2008
Location: Exile
Posts: 1885
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Luckily i've got a unique solution
Well for the D3 anyhow.
Link
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| 17th Oct 2009 11:41 pm |
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Pedders
Member Since: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Aylesbury
Posts: 41
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Will it not be possiable to order the LED strip as a part to fit into the headlamp and then hard wire it in. There must be replacement parts if a bulb or two was to go faulty on the HSE?!?! 350miles and cant wait to do more.
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| 18th Oct 2009 12:13 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
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buellbeast wrote:Legislation on vehicle lighting is changing. From January 2011, EU regulations mean that all new cars in the UK registered after that date will require EU approved daylight running lights (DRLs).
Wait for the 2011 cars and it'll have to come as standard by law
That has nothing to do with the LEDs, and has been discussed at length.
DRL regulations require dipped beam headlamps to be lit - in some instances, side lamps (ie LEDs), are not lit at all. On the LR implementation, sidelamps are lit when DRLs are enabled - which your dealer can do now if you would like. It can be IDS enabled.
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| 18th Oct 2009 12:36 pm |
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Landylad
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 366
 
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So anyway....
Anyone got a fix yet?
 If in doot, flat oot!!
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| 30th Nov 2009 3:59 pm |
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Russell
Member Since: 24 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
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Has anybody just tried putting 12 volts to the contacts? MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
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| 30th Nov 2009 5:06 pm |
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