Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4312
D4 v illegal road user
Now if a D4 squashes the user/driver/rider of an illegal motorised vehicle will the driver of the taxed/insured/MOT driver be responsible for the ambulance charge?
Reason I ask on our unclassified NSL 60mph road we have a candidate for this year Darwin award riding an electric scooter at a guess in excess of 15mph.
Brendan
12th Aug 2021 11:18 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13100
If the driver of the D4 does something wrong, then maybe. Time to get a dash cam, it seems to me. They can help to prove you weren't doing anything wrong.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
12th Aug 2021 11:23 pm
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10297
The way the laws seem to be going, it doesn’t matter how “legal” you might be, the driver of the larger vehicle is always the one deemed to be responsible for the outcome.
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13th Aug 2021 8:23 am
astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8052
so when one of the round here on the illegal, unrestricted, scooters doing maybe 20mph or more on the pavement knocks down and injures/kills someone they'll definitely be prosecuted........somehow I doubt it
When you see a marked cop car overtake four of them weaving around (as in purposely going back and forth across the carriageway, not just 'wobbling' along) along the road without a care in the world then you know law and order is going to rat . Riding one of these in our town is illegal, not shady, not a 'maybe its a trial', they are 100% illegal yet the police just cruise on by and, no, "they have better things to do" really isn't a reason.
The usual cry from the willfully thick is any or all of the following:
"ain't you got no nonces to nick? There's peedos (sic) everywhere, that bloke at the mosque is a bit off, you should go an' arrest 'im. My boy never done no 'arm, 'e's only 'avin' a bit a fun, innit. 'e was gunna be an arky-tech or sumfink*"
(*usually promising footballer with a great Premiership career ahead of him, also helps his nan a lot)I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
13th Aug 2021 12:18 pm
Pimpintgepidge
Member Since: 17 Sep 2019
Location: Glossop
Posts: 123
pretty much every news paper no matter the area…2015 D4 HSE Loire Blue
so when one of the round here on the illegal, unrestricted, scooters doing maybe 20mph or more on the pavement knocks down and injures/kills someone they'll definitely be prosecuted........somehow I doubt it
There have been deaths ... wasn't a US actress killed by one the other week ?
astonbuilder wrote:
Riding one of these in our town is illegal, not shady, not a 'maybe it's a trial', they are 100% illegal yet the police just cruise on by and, no, "they have better things to do" really isn't a reason.
Catching the feckers is the problem ... my youngest did a project at Uni this year, working with one of the big manufacturers, looking at making suitable variants for emergency services to use. Might have a fighting chance then
2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms
24th Dec 2021 8:38 pm
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Wirral, UK
Posts: 3067
Was just about to say, Merseyside Police are really hot on scooters, will happily confiscate them on sight. This is despite having a legal scooter rental network in Liverpool city centre, much to some peoples confusionD4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
2018 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography - Gone to someone with less sense and more time to enjoy it
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24th Dec 2021 9:09 pm
jamez79
Member Since: 03 Sep 2018
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 568
astonbuilder wrote:
so when one of the round here on the illegal, unrestricted, scooters doing maybe 20mph or more on the pavement knocks down and injures/kills someone they'll definitely be prosecuted........somehow I doubt it
When you see a marked cop car overtake four of them weaving around (as in purposely going back and forth across the carriageway, not just 'wobbling' along) along the road without a care in the world then you know law and order is going to rat . Riding one of these in our town is illegal, not shady, not a 'maybe its a trial', they are 100% illegal yet the police just cruise on by and, no, "they have better things to do" really isn't a reason.
I think the frustration with front line officers, is the higher ranks won't authorise any tactics to use against them and if they knocked somebody off their illegal scooter and injured them the IOPC would pull out all the stops to try and prosecute the police driver. Any succesful prosecution could lead to that officer being suspended, sacked, forteiting pension etc for trying to do the what essentially was the right thing in the public's eyes (as in vast majority of law abiding citizens that pay taxes and want the police to do their job).
The easy option therefore is to drive on past, get critised by the public for ignoring the matter, radio in what they've seen and let the higher ranks decide what not to do. I imagine it's rather frustrating.
24th Dec 2021 10:47 pm
aqua0
Member Since: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Chorley/Sunderland
Posts: 86
astonbuilder wrote:
so when one of the round here on the illegal, unrestricted, scooters doing maybe 20mph or more on the pavement knocks down and injures/kills someone they'll definitely be prosecuted........somehow I doubt it
When you see a marked cop car overtake four of them weaving around (as in purposely going back and forth across the carriageway, not just 'wobbling' along) along the road without a care in the world then you know law and order is going to rat . Riding one of these in our town is illegal, not shady, not a 'maybe its a trial', they are 100% illegal yet the police just cruise on by and, no, "they have better things to do" really isn't a reason.
Apologies if this seems a little controversial, but there are currently several e-scooter riders being prosecuted for dangerous driving/driving without due care etc. There are many more being prosecuted for driving without insurance and getting slapped with 6 points and a £300 fine.
Some areas the Police enforce the law robustly, others not so much. This is very probably due to the fact that many cities have them on trial as the reality is - they will eventually become legal whether you're happy about it or not. There's very little difference between e-scooters and pushbikes/e-bikes and given that e-bikes are currently legal, e-scooters won't be far behind.
I'm all for them but I'm a little biased given that we own two of them. I'm also a motorbike rider so I have a bit more road sense/awareness than some other motorists. I used to use my e-scooter to get to work and back. Only a mile each way, but my savings over the cost of using my D4 were considerable. Add to that the savings in my carbon output which again were considerable. Time savings were also considerable - my commute dropped to 4 mins instead of the usual 15-30mins and I wasn't fighting to find a car park space! Easily an absolute win-win for me.
We've stopped using ours for the time being. I no longer have an easy 1 mile commute as I've changed jobs and I'm now all over the country. The risk of getting 6pts has stopped me chucking the scooter in the boot to use when I'm away and not familiar with the local area, but as soon as the law changes - I'll be back to using my e-scooter as much as possible.
2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms
6th Jan 2022 3:16 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
Obviously the car drivers’ fault for parking in a dangerous place.
6th Jan 2022 3:37 pm
aqua0
Member Since: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Chorley/Sunderland
Posts: 86
Not really Dean,
Do you think that would've been headline worthy news if the 74yr old had been riding a pushbike? Or more likely, it would have read "74yr old dies in collision with parked cars"
These headlines only make the news because e-scooters are new. Not that long ago, similar things were said and written about cars by people only used to walking and riding horses etc. but look how those 'new fangled contraptions' turned out
6th Jan 2022 3:41 pm
N5Fav
Member Since: 28 Jan 2021
Location: LEICESTER
Posts: 134
In response to the original question about the 'ambulance charge'.
My wife used to work in admin at a major hospital, part of her job was this charge.
It's not an 'ambulance charge', its claiming the cost of any A&E or hospital treatment when an accident has happened 'due to the presence of a motor vehicle.
So you could have your Disco parked up perfectly legally and correctly, and if one of these E scooter riders, or a pedestrian, or a cyclist injures themselves on your motor vehicle, then the NHS is entitled to ask your insurers for costs for the required treatment.
Crazy, but that's the law.1994 Defender 300tdi 110 commercial
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round here on the illegal, unrestricted, scooters doing maybe 20mph or more on the pavement knocks down and injures/kills someone they'll definitely be prosecuted........somehow I doubt it 
pretty much every news paper no matter the area…
... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
