DISCO4.COM - View topic - Dastek Powerplug

Donald

Member Since: 15 May 2007
Location: Inverness
Posts: 188

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Zambezi Silver

Dastek Powerplug

Has anybody any experience of using this plug in tuning box, please? Especially with TDV6 auto?

16th May 2007 7:23 pm

n1cktdv6

Member Since: 20 Mar 2007
Location: Warrington
Posts: 1161

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zambezi Silver

Re: Dastek Powerplug

Donald wrote:
Has anybody any experience of using this plug in tuning box, please? Especially with TDV6 auto?

Had one on my TD5 and it was great, though did need to be reprogrammed when I had an intercooler fitted. Liek the idea that if car goes you can take off and sell on - but having read the posts here and got advice I think the preferred D3 auto solution is a remap. Mine is a Turbochip and I am very happy with it, 250BHP and 550Nm torque 8) D4 HSE....Probably, but not quite decided yet.
3.6 TDV8 Vogue
XC90 SE Lux
A8 Quattro TDi
D3 SE

16th May 2007 11:15 pm

10forcash

Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534

2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Manual Zermatt Silver

Basically it just raises the fuel rail pressure, no sophistication of the remap route and certainly nowhere near the bespoke mapping available now...
constantly pushing the fuel rail pressure on a TDV6 will eventually cause premature injector wear and a build-up of carbon deposits in the exhaust ports, manifold and exhaust itself - eventually leading to a restriction in the route for waste gases, reducing the available power & torque, because it's a relatively slow process it's unlikely to be noticed. A remap does not have this downside

16th May 2007 11:22 pm

10forcash

Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534

From a Dynograph i've seen, it would suggest the lower figure is more accurate 'at the wheels'

17th May 2007 11:32 pm

Gerry Gaffney

Member Since: 17 May 2007
Location: Fife
Posts: 8

10forcash,

May I point out that quite clearly you have no idea what our product is capable of!

For a start it is able to control rail pressure, as well as injector on-time. It also controls the point of injection, critical in reducing EGT, smoke & noise. We also control boost pressure, all of these functions are rpm & load dependant (true 3D mapping) We also have the unique ability to hold the engine at any given engine speed & throttle opening on our own in-house 4WD dyno, & make 'live' changes to all of the above maps & see what produces the best results safely, i.e more boost with more advance, more fuel with more boost via pressure or injector on-time, etc.. this way we get to the optimum results easily, the same task would take literally tens of thousands of dyno runs to ascertain, by the ecu programming method. Our unit can also do closed-loop EGT control (just one of the reasons we supply to several manufacturers, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Nissan , as well as it being E-marked making it legal for use on the public highway - don't confuse with TUV markings, this does not render it legal)

I have no idea where you have come to the conclusion that running higher rail pressure will lead to premature wear on the injectors nor the carbon build up nonsense, perhaps a bit of scaremongering is good for business? Owning both bosch & delphi pump & injector test benches, I'm sure we are in a good position to see if this was the case. Of course we do alter the pressure, but we also alter the pulse width, but I'm sure you know that by extending the pulse width, you increase the EGT, so please inform me what your soloution does that ours cannot? I'm also interested in what your max EGT is (the killer for any diesel engine) if indeed you know it?

I'm also curious in that you say each upgrade you supply is tailored to the individual car, can you explain to me (& I'm sure others will be interesed) how this is done, i.e what do you measure & how do you measure it?

I'm not looking to pick a bun fight here (particulary as the new boy

) but having over 12 years of mapping & engine building experience (in WRC & BTCC, as well as other championships including diesels 8) ) I cannot stand back & allow you to make misleading comments, that come across to the general public as an expert view.

I look forward to your reply & appologise to anyone in advance that feels this message to be a bit sharp.

Best regards,

Gerry Gaffney
Managing Director
Dastek UK Ltd

17th May 2007 11:40 pm

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50952

Welcome Gerry...know Donald well do you?? ...or did you just happen to stumble across the site just by pure coincidence?? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

17th May 2007 11:52 pm

simon

Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296

2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Fuji White

DG wrote:
Welcome Gerry...know Donald well do you?? ...or did you just happen to stumble across the site just by co-incidence??

Gerry we understand where your coming from wanting to explain your product, but please do not use this thread (and forum) as a free advertising method.

You could have easily PM'd TFC instead of putting this in the public domain.

17th May 2007 11:55 pm

Gerry Gaffney

Member Since: 17 May 2007
Location: Fife
Posts: 8

Hi DG,

Thanks for the welcome.

May look suspicious but I've no idea who Donald is, I am a registered RRsport member, & have crossed swords with other 'tuners'

making similar bizarre nonsense. I was having a quick look here for the wifes new transport soloution & being the sad geek that I am

I thought I'd do a quick search.

Cheers,

Gerry

18th May 2007 12:02 am

10forcash

Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534

Oh, sorry, i'll just disregard the involvement i've had with Bosch, Lucas / CAV etc. over the last 20 years or so then eh?
FACT Plug - in boxes cannot interact with the engine mapping in the same way as a software tune
FACT 'fooling' the ECU by modifying control messages to and from it to change it's behaviour can and does lead to increased injector tip wear by virtue of the increased pressure, additionally unburnt fuel deposits will cling to the exhaust ports, valves, exhaust, turbo etc. as i'm sure you're aware. increasing the fuel rail pressure and pulse width will ineviatably add more fuel to the engine, of which a percentage will become soot (carbon) it follows that with a greater fuel load per cycle (and the same percentage of soot) then the volume of soot will increase...

Suffice to say i'm not going to get involved in a

ing match or start giving you (or anyone else) the inside track on how the remap works so well, although I would say that it's common for remaps to be tested in a software environment before real-world & dyno testing - a bit more sophisticated than 'tweaking' the settings on a live engine...

The bespoke nature of the Product I offer is mainly due to being able to take account of the adaptive nature of the ECU on the TDV6, most other solutions disregard this

BTW, anything before the word 'but' doesn't count

18th May 2007 12:02 am

Gerry Gaffney

Member Since: 17 May 2007
Location: Fife
Posts: 8

Hi Simon,

I appologise if I have crossed the line regarding advertising, if so I will gladly amend the post to comply.

I appreciate that I could have PM'd TFC, however if people are prepared to make such bold 'False & Misleading' claims about anothers products (which was viewed by over 180 people) then I believe that these things are better aired in public, this way people can make their own minds up regarding truth, honesty, & capability.

Cheers,

Gerry

18th May 2007 12:08 am

n1cktdv6

Member Since: 20 Mar 2007
Location: Warrington
Posts: 1161

Sorry, but got to be honest, there seems to be quite a lot of 'my power upgrade is better than yours' at the moment on the forum generally - not just this thread, which I don't mind if it's from end users as that makes good banter and a significant part of the forum on all products - but is this really an appropriate place for a commerical battleground between competitors in business ?

If the answer is yes I'll shut the

up

D4 HSE....Probably, but not quite decided yet.
3.6 TDV8 Vogue
XC90 SE Lux
A8 Quattro TDi
D3 SE

18th May 2007 12:12 am

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50952

Gerry Gaffney wrote:
Hi DG,

Thanks for the welcome.

May look suspicious but I've no idea who Donald is, I am a registered RRsport member, & have crossed swords with other 'tuners' making similar bizarre nonsense. I was having a quick look here for the wifes new transport soloution & being the sad geek that I am I thought I'd do a quick search.

Cheers,

Gerry

Gerry, thanks for the explanation ....but I didn't come down in the last shower.

21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

18th May 2007 12:19 am

disco4x4au

Member Since: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 409

Actually, I for one think this _should_ be a public discussion (perhaps without specifics regarding each 'brand' of tune).

All the ECU remappers I have heard from on this and other sites _all_ stick to the mantra that plugin boxes simply increase rail pressure - nothing else. And I can't see any logical reason why this should be so. Are plugin box manufacturers really all that dumb?? It's refreshing to hear from the other side - this is the first time anyone has alluded to what they are capable of.

Cheers,

Gordon ex - 2006 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, with lots of stuff - R.I.P.
ex - 2009 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, had lots of stuff too!
Now - 2010 RRS 3.0 TDV6, rimini red, 18" rims + Cooper LTZ, rear eLocker, Spider tuning box, GOE protection plates and rock sliders, GOE 3way shortened rods.

18th May 2007 12:38 am

Gerry Gaffney

Member Since: 17 May 2007
Location: Fife
Posts: 8

As I expected waffle with no substance

:Reworded as the previous statement was an unfare assumption;
Can I ask are you just a reseller of someone elses technology or are you directly involved in the firm & software coding, & do you get involved in the development of the settings to optimise the vehicle?

Can you explain that in your first message you say that our unit will clog up the ports with carbon, & yours wont, but then in the second message you say that an increase in rail pressure or injector pulse width will both result in an increase in soot & hence clogging up, however given that there are only 2 methods of increasing the quantity of fuel into the engine (1 - increase pressure, 2 - increase injection duration) how is your unit not going to do the same

I'm sure if you do some net research, you'll find that all succesful race teams after doing the simulation, will always end the theoretical map with 'live' tuning on the dyno to gain the optimum result, so I'm not sure where you are trying to go with that argument

You mention your vast diesel experience, I'm sure then you must have documentation to support your claims, surely there will be white papers at SAE?

I'm pretty well versed in what is & isn't possible via software programming of the ECU & if you really knew what is capable (as I do being one of a privelaged few outside of Bosch to see the complete ME motronic architecture for Spies F3 engines) & what most 'chip tuners' limited access truly is, you'd be stunned

For all others reading, that wish to make their own minds up, then think about a basic engine, all it needs to make power is the correct quantity of fuel in relation to the amount of air consumed & ignited at the right time, this doesn't matter if it's someone on the bonnet varying a stop cock or a sophisticated ECU.

I'm quite happy to do a back to back blind tests on the same vehicle on the dyno, & on the track using a racelogic Vbox, whilst logging AFR & EGT. I have made this offer before against another tuner on RRsport (feel free to search) but strangely enough wasn't taken up on the offer

Nick sorry you feel this is a commercial argument, I'll happily remove all Dastek from the whole post, but I hope you can see why it is neccesary to take people to task on these matters, when it is quite clear it is pure untruths aimed at increasing sales. The sooner people learn about what is & isn't possible, the sooner the wool is lifted from over their eyes

DG, please feel free to believe what you like, people that know me know I don't lie period.

Cheers,

Gerry

Last edited by Gerry Gaffney on 18th May 2007 9:01 am. Edited 1 time in total

18th May 2007 12:51 am

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50952

disco4x4au wrote:
Actually, I for one think this _should_ be a public discussion (perhaps without specifics regarding each 'brand' of tune).

All the ECU remappers I have heard from on this and other sites _all_ stick to the mantra that plugin boxes simply increase rail pressure - nothing else. And I can't see any logical reason why this should be so. Are plugin box manufacturers really all that dumb?? It's refreshing to hear from the other side - this is the first time anyone has alluded to what they are capable of.

Cheers,

Gordon

Well I don't think we've have quite learnt what it's capable of

....but having looked back through all the relevant posts you are correct in stating that the various remapping tuners have repeatedly commented on 'plug in' boxes raising rail pressure ...are we saying that they are all wrong

Are these boxes D3 specific? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

18th May 2007 12:53 am