Member Since: 27 Feb 2011
Location: Wilts
Posts: 1376
I've had every variation of Defender, Discovery (less the D5) and Freelander over the years and I have always been a die hard LR nut. I have built Series and Defenders and have modded Discoverys; in short I have a real passion for the marque.
However, running costs, overall reliability issues and the attitude of JLR towards their customers has pushed me away from the brand. I need a vehicle that will start when I need it to and not let me down, not instantaneously combust or drop a crank whilst my family is in it! I know these are isolated cases, but there are too many for my liking. JLRs had-hoc approach to warranty claims and the overall customer experience means that I am just not prepared to support the brand anymore.
So, I went for a soul less Kia. The 7 year warranty was the deal maker which I went through with a fine tooth comb before buying. The warranty is as good in year 1 as it is in year 7, no questions. I got in it the other day, attached my trailer and drove to my parents and back on a single tank (705 miles), I didn't change gear once (apart from playing with the flappy paddles) as its an auto and the heated steering wheel and heated (and cooled) seats kept me comfortable all the way there and back, with adaptive cruise control, lane monitoring and blind spot monitoring all helping the cause. The heater was set to 21 degrees when I left and wasn't touched the whole journey, unlike my £61K D4. My kids watched DVDs and the dogs travelled in the boot along with some luggage, all in comfort. The large panoramic sunroof allowed the kids to see out and flooded the cabin with light. I even had a play with the self parking feature when I got there, assisted by the seamless 360 HD cameras and cross traffic alert. The Harmon Kardon media player kept mum and dad entertained along with Apple CarPlay. The adaptive LED headlights and high beam assist lit the way home.
So, its not a Discovery, but neither is it soul less. It drives superb and there is a lot to be said for the feeling you get when driving it. Its sporty, handles superbly and stops effectively. Surrounded by kit in a well put together quality cabin and the knowledge that it covers the miles using less than half the fuel the D4 did never fails to put a simile on my face.
I let my heart and dedication to JLR rule what sat on my drive for many years and it took a lot for me to be honest with myself and get rid of the green oval which has been part of my life for so long. I can honestly say though the D4 is not missed.
I wont have another expensive LR again, I may get a TD5 90 in the future as a plaything, but I will not be subscribing to mainstream JLR again.
Before you dismiss the unknown, go check one out, you might be surprised.
7th Jan 2018 2:02 pm
jonno1
Member Since: 16 Jun 2010
Location: SW London
Posts: 706
Couldn’t agree more about warranty and reliability. What model are you describing?
7th Jan 2018 2:15 pm
Tanglewood
Member Since: 27 Feb 2011
Location: Wilts
Posts: 1376
We went for the Optima Sportswagon in GT Line trim. 10 months old, £21K. The spec is endless. My first Kia and if it works out ok then the Sorento is next. Another bonus is that I know it will be on the driveway in the morning when I wake - after all, who would steal a Kia?!
7th Jan 2018 2:19 pm
F4BUP
Member Since: 01 Jan 2018
Location: Bath
Posts: 33
I had a new Hyundai Santa Fe as my company car was hit by a drunk Driver.
Great car, was fantastic in the snow on the 15 th December up through Warwickshire taking many a FFRR and ML. Seven seats, heated leather all round.
I'd have another.
7th Jan 2018 2:28 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
I can’t say that I could ever lay claim to having gone through the small print with a fine tooth comb but, excluding the reasonable exception, such as tyres, glass, batteries and bulbs, there are several obvious problems that seem to clash with their claim of being “a bumper to bumper warranty that’s just like a 3 year guarantee, but longer:
1. It’s limited to 100,000 miles (that’s 3 years to me)
2. It excludes wear and tear on mechanical components, which could reasonably exclude all of the regular failure items, such as wheel bearings, shocks, suspension bushes, drive shafts, the list is endless. Just like a lot of aftermarket warranties really.
3. The entertainment and navigation systems are limited to 60,000 miles, or 3 years. With these being completely integrated into the car’s electrical architecture, there are a lot of potential “outs” there.
4. The warranty allows Kia to fit second hand parts.
5. Your “extended” warranty agreement is with the dealer, not the manufacturer, who is expected to claim the cost back from Kia. It would be worth checking with the dealer on the labour rate that Kia currently pay for this work (I used to know what it was and it was surprising) to appreciate how keen they might be to take this work on. Even Kia recommend that you take it to the supplying dealer...
Apart from that, my comments about Kia were pretty tongue in cheek, especially now they’ve offloaded their old designer to Land Rover (seriously!) and got someone new in. Ex Audi, I believe. Has everyone seen the Stinger?!2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
7th Jan 2018 3:19 pm
Tanglewood
Member Since: 27 Feb 2011
Location: Wilts
Posts: 1376
Can you send me a link to where you got your info from? The detail you provide above differs somewhat from the literature I got from the dealer when I bought my car. Cheers
7th Jan 2018 3:26 pm
Tanglewood
Member Since: 27 Feb 2011
Location: Wilts
Posts: 1376
Red Merle wrote:
I can’t say that I could ever lay claim to having gone through the small print with a fine tooth comb but, excluding the reasonable exception, such as tyres, glass, batteries and bulbs, there are several obvious problems that seem to clash with their claim of being “a bumper to bumper warranty that’s just like a 3 year guarantee, but longer:
1. It’s limited to 100,000 miles (that’s 3 years to me)
14000+ miles a year over 7 years more than caters for my needs.
2. It excludes wear and tear on mechanical components, which could reasonably exclude all of the regular failure items, such as wheel bearings, shocks, suspension bushes, drive shafts, the list is endless. Just like a lot of aftermarket warranties really.
Clutch was the only thing pointed out to me when I asked about this. Mine is an auto and the TC is covered.
3. The entertainment and navigation systems are limited to 60,000 miles, or 3 years. With these being completely integrated into the car’s electrical architecture, there are a lot of potential “outs” there.
Potentially
4. The warranty allows Kia to fit second hand parts.
Cant find this in my warranty paperwork.
5. Your “extended” warranty agreement is with the dealer, not the manufacturer, who is expected to claim the cost back from Kia. It would be worth checking with the dealer on the labour rate that Kia currently pay for this work (I used to know what it was and it was surprising) to appreciate how keen they might be to take this work on. Even Kia recommend that you take it to the supplying dealer...
Same as most warranties
Apart from that, my comments about Kia were pretty tongue in cheek, especially now they’ve offloaded their old designer to Land Rover (seriously!) and got someone new in. Ex Audi, I believe. Has everyone seen the Stinger?!
The ex Audi designer is now President of the company. An ex BMW designer has taken his place as head of design. I don't like the Stinger.
The warranty was but one (all be it an important one) reason why I bought the car. Plenty more stuff to enjoy.
7th Jan 2018 4:44 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23338
Reliability, warranty, specification and practicality have nothing to do with "soul". Indeed the opposite is often true of a car with soul or character.
I client of mine has a Kia Sorento. It's his second one in a row and he can't fault them. It's used as a tow vehicle for their caravan, as well as being his main day to day vehicle.
He's a proper "petrol head" and describes the Kia as "automotive white goods", which is why he has his toys in the garage. which include an very cherished and pampered Defender 90 (which has a lot of soul).
Like him, I'm not knocking Kia or Hyundia, I could well own one in the future, but I know exactly what Red Merle means.
Sadly the above is true for the majority of vehicles now. Bland, safe, reliable, highly specced. etc. which is all good of course, but they lack "soul".2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
7th Jan 2018 5:59 pm
Tanglewood
Member Since: 27 Feb 2011
Location: Wilts
Posts: 1376
If 'soul' includes bursting into flames or the crankshaft converting itself into swarf, then I am indeed the owner of a soul less car!
7th Jan 2018 6:09 pm
J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
7th Jan 2018 6:40 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72778
Problem is they have a way of getting under your skin. I've owned 16 (I think at last count) from 1990 onwards and since then there was only a few years without one, both of us having company cars. Plan to keep mine for a few years yet while I can still get a meaningful warranty but after that just not sure. I doubt it'll be a D5, it doesn't appeal to me any more than X5s, Q7s, ToeRags, etc, thinking I might go back to a 5 series.
7th Jan 2018 6:49 pm
Tanglewood
Member Since: 27 Feb 2011
Location: Wilts
Posts: 1376
I know what you mean DSL, thats why it took me so long to make the move.
7th Jan 2018 6:55 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72778
Mistake I made with the D3 is I assumed it would last for ever, which it didn't. No expense was spared, if something needed sorted it got sorted. I spent not far off the value of the car on a gearbox refurb for the engine to die 4,000 miles miles later. With the D4 anything like that should be covered by the warranty, at least for the next 20 months, I'm planning to extend that for 3 years & sell a year before the end of it. Unless it blows something major then it'll be fixed and she'll be gone.
My plans anyway. Got RoadTrip 2018 planned to go to the places I didn't manage to get to in 2017. That may change things a little.
7th Jan 2018 7:04 pm
thetobymac
Member Since: 23 Aug 2017
Location: Salisbury
Posts: 3
I would be keeping the disco....I have a D4 2010 with 131000 miles on it and I know its expensive but it does everything and more that you will ever need. Better the devil you know I say
7th Jan 2018 7:26 pm
stephenw46
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1154
I also looked at the Kia And the Hyundai, I could of had a new one all singing and dancing for less then I paid for my three year old D4 but I didn’t buy it as a cheap economical run around, I upgraded from my D3 and smile every single time I drive her
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