character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
  
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and yer point is........ 
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 15th Jan 2011 11:41 pm |
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chrisbowler
Member Since: 30 Jan 2009
Location: UK WALES
Posts: 176
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Scenario 3
Customer comes to me with a fault on his D3 TDV6, 55 plate 71,000miles that he bought on EBAY 6 WEEKS BEFORE - when he drives it the engine management light comes on every time he accelerates hard. Car looses power and message centre displays " ENGINE SYSTEMS FAILURE"
I now offer free diagnostics so he books car in and I spend 15-20 minutes taking the vehicle on a test drive, using my " tool" to read dynamic real data, read faults and diagnose what is wrong.
I then inform him that the fuel pressure is too low and is probably caused by
1 a blocked fuel filter - when was it last services? - about 19,000 miles ago
2 a fuel pump on the way out
3 Bad fuel
I have spent 30 minutes on this job and he says "OK, CAN i BOOK IT IN NEXT WEEK"
I explained my charges to resolve the job and that if I did the work there would be no charge for the diagnostic work. We then book a date the following day to get the car in to fix it
That was 6 months ago and I found out later that the local garage worked on the car, changed the filter and car now runs fine.
My free diagnostic service is really paying off - still at least I had a tax break on the initial purchase!!!!!!!!!!! that is giving everyone free consultancy.
Chris Bowler Chris Bowler
D3 2005 EXPEDITION
D2 Challenge Vehicle
300 TDi Spare car
107" TD5 Comp Safari Motor
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:16 am |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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I would have thought the answer was simple..... charge the customer for the initial diagnostic as a labour charge on the understanding that should they return to fix the vehicle with you, then this will be refunded, not rocket science 
Last edited by character on 16th Jan 2011 12:21 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:19 am |
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whoami
Member Since: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 170
 
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'Yer'.
Is there a pirate on this thread?
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:20 am |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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Overall, I think the point here is to be "transparent" to the customer - we the customer would expect to pay for someones time, but not to pay for the kit as a separate income generating facility.
Because you informed the would be customer it was a "diagnostic" it gave the impression that what you did had little or no value hence they went off down the road with a clear mind.
Yep charge the "one visiting/diy motorist" for yer time, but also look at it that there are further facilities you can offer and the opportunity to create a relationship with that individual may be more important to you in the long term.
Question for yer Chris, what details d'you have of yer clients who do use you or is it a case of "just there name and telephone number" 
Last edited by character on 16th Jan 2011 12:36 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:28 am |
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whoami
Member Since: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 170
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Yer?
What?
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:29 am |
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Discoed
Member Since: 16 Jun 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1020
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I'm glad I started that. Great discussion with some good points on all sides 
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:36 am |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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whoami wrote:Yer?
What?
I'm sorry, what relevance are you bringing to this thread or are you just out of yer depth
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:37 am |
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bellautos
Member Since: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NorthYorkshire
Posts: 2532
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character wrote:I would have thought the answer was simple..... charge the customer for the initial diagnostic as a labour charge on the understanding that should they return to fix the vehicle with you, then this will be refunded, not rocket science
Its not that simple lol
Customer brings his car in
Customer says, its suspention is going down, speedo dont work, hill decent light on, Park break dont work, infact the full dash is like a christmass tree.
Workshop plugs the tool and finds nearly every module has a communication error of some sort in it.
Workshop then fook off the super expencive pc tool and starts to look for the problem using a 2 quid multi meter.
He then finds that he has a short to GND on the CAN circuit by testing the OBD port and thinks ohhh, thats why i got comms errors in all the modules with my super duper pc ive now booted down the workshop as it didnt find the fault for me.
Workshop then starts to trace manually the wireing and using his knowlage of termination resistors in the 2 termination modules tries to work out where in the CAN wireing the fault is.
After lotts of digging arround and 3 hrs time workshop finds that the CAN HI wire has shorted on the chassis rail above the compressor.
repaires the wire with a splice costing 10p and taking 10 mins to fit to the car.
Should the customers bill be 10 mins and 10p ?
or would i be best saying , Sir the diagnostic labour is 45x3hrs+vat and ive 100% found the fault and you can fix it your self for only 10p lol
In my garages case the bill would be 45x3hrs+10p+vat though i may wave the 10p lol
Pete
Last edited by bellautos on 16th Jan 2011 1:11 am. Edited 7 times in total
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:40 am |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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Pete, you would charge yer normal hourly rate plus any parts, you're diagnostics is part of what you do under that labour charge but you would not then lump £40 on top for using the laptop which is what dealers and indi are doing all the time and hence the reason for this post
Offering "free diagnostic testing as part of your normal service routine " means that you are charging for yer time (as we customers would expect) but unlike some/all of yer competitors, yer not charging for that AND the use of the laptop.
Last edited by character on 16th Jan 2011 12:48 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:44 am |
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AndrewW
Member Since: 06 Aug 2007
Location: Saddleworth
Posts: 2302
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character wrote:and yer point is........
.. if you want expertise, you have to share the cost of him being there, of him getting there and of him helping you.
Sorry - I thought that was sort of obvious....
As a supplier of services, unless, like in all of my work now I am retired, you go out of your way to help people for nothing because you can afford to live by other means, you have to share the cost of helping folk between the folk you help.
As a consumer of services - I don't like paying for anything unnecessarily, but I respect the needs for the guy in business to make a living and pay for the kit he needs to run the business. And if I am offered a job for nothing, that's a favour from a friend; if I'm offered a job at too low a price it's probably not going to be a good job. 2006 D3 finally swapped for a 2016 D4 Graphite in Graphite grey. No mods
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:46 am |
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bellautos
Member Since: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NorthYorkshire
Posts: 2532
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character wrote:Pete, you would charge yer normal hourly rate plus any parts, you're diagnostics is part of what you do under that labour charge but you would not then lump £40 on top for using the laptop which is what dealers and indi are doing all the time and hence the reason for this post
Yes you got it.
No extra charges, i dont care what tools i use you only pay for my time. The rate does not vary no matter what tool i use.
If i use spanners and a screwdriver for 1hr its 45+vat + parts EG oil fillters.
If i use SDD dealer tool for 1 hr its 45+vat + parts EG an ecu.
As part of a 1hr engine service i will reset the service light with no extra charges for my laptop being used.
Of course we do have fixed priced jobs like servicing, clutches, tyres fitted etc etc which is the norm for most garages.
Pete
Last edited by bellautos on 16th Jan 2011 1:01 am. Edited 2 times in total
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:50 am |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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I agree Andrew, you pay for the labour as it's an accepted part of going in to a garage with a need to have something confirmed/fixed, but what seems to be happening and I am sure many a person reading this thread will agree, dealers/garages/indi's are using the complexity of the kit used to identify the problem to add additional charges on top of any labour for this kit which is already offset as an "investment" in the business either as a tax allowance OR as a means of attracting future/greater business
ps not reffering to any participants of this thread as I dont know them from a bar of soap at the moment
Last edited by character on 16th Jan 2011 1:09 am. Edited 3 times in total
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:53 am |
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bellautos
Member Since: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NorthYorkshire
Posts: 2532
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Not me, so if anyone has a problem with their car they can call bell auto services and we will only charge you for time spent + parts 
Pete
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:54 am |
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chrisbowler
Member Since: 30 Jan 2009
Location: UK WALES
Posts: 176
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In the case of my fuel problem customer, I did expect him to come back for the work - I do not think that he was put off by my labour charges - but clearly he felt that if it was only a fuel filter, to get a local non specialist garage to change the filter would be a cheap option and if that did not cuse the problem, then he may have returned.
Sadly all businesses suffer from customers who take more than they are prepared to pay for and as a fairly new to this business game ( I was in the Army 4 years ago ) I suppose I want to help everyone who comes through the door.
However, I do feel that a specialist diagnostic tool is much more than part of the normal garage service - it is a facility over and above any other non specialist garage and as such needs to be used professionally - it is not just for clearing faults and reset service lights.
I would be interested how a Main Agent Dealership could justify the charges it makes on the hourly rate when an independant specialist can survive on 1/2 or lower than the dealer prices and still produce the results when needed. After all a 13mm ratchet spanner is the same the world over!!! and if we say that the diagnostic tool is just a garage tool then surely the labour rate is the more logical thing to be worried about.
Chris Bowler Chris Bowler
D3 2005 EXPEDITION
D2 Challenge Vehicle
300 TDi Spare car
107" TD5 Comp Safari Motor
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| 16th Jan 2011 12:56 am |
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