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Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20727
  
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FWIW, I only fit OEM FoMoCo pumps...
Never had an issue.
I used to fit these at the side of the road, in all temperatures, and all built oil pressure within 5-6 seconds of starting My D3 Build Thread
TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread
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 17th Dec 2019 9:00 pm |
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Room_For_Improvement
Member Since: 09 Sep 2019
Location: Bolton
Posts: 20
 
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Hi Gareth? Engines run/primed at the factory would surely have the crank journals and internals coated, treated with some form of bedding in grease/lube? Mine doesn't only the oil residue that remains from 4 months ago, minus any traces due to the Hyper-Cleaning approach? I did use an air compressor and parrafin cannister, and then air dried any residue sprayed up into the sump case when the sump pan and pump was removed?
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| 17th Dec 2019 9:02 pm |
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Room_For_Improvement
Member Since: 09 Sep 2019
Location: Bolton
Posts: 20
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Hi DiscoMikey, It's a generic pump appears identical to the FoMoCo, it's the one with the new black anodised hex screws holding the plate to the back of the pump? I paid ~ £120 purchased from an authorised car parts motor factor, GT? General Traffic, they supply OEM / Approved aftermarket components to the motor retailers up here where I am? I didn't buy it on ebay..
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| 17th Dec 2019 9:06 pm |
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gearmuncher
Member Since: 30 Oct 2018
Location: Woodley
Posts: 143
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FFS go out and start it, you'r driving us mad 
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| 17th Dec 2019 9:11 pm |
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jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 760
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have you had it running longer than 5/6 seconds ?
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| 17th Dec 2019 9:14 pm |
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Flack
Member Since: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Preston Lancashire
Posts: 6232
 
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I once fitted a customer supplied Oil pump ( Nota Fomoco one) and had the same results your seeing,no matter what I tried it would not pump any oil.
I had to remove it and fit one ofmy Own Fomoco ones and that turned the oil light out even before the engine started.
Ditch the crappy pump and fit OEM as Mikey has said, I have fit hundreds of Oil pumps and this was the only one that failed, it was a cheap chinese one.
Flack 
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| 17th Dec 2019 9:16 pm |
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Room_For_Improvement
Member Since: 09 Sep 2019
Location: Bolton
Posts: 20
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Hi M3DPO?
Yes, that sounds like a good suggestion? I was thinking surely the oil has to pass through the oil filter before it feeds the crank / journals? I do not know the path the oil takes in the engine, but obviously would think it has to go through the filter first, which is fed/pressurized by the oil pump which it would appear, I am speculating the pump pressurizes feeding the oil up the internal engine oil passage ways/cavities and then surely directly to the cooler/oil filter housing?
Not sure about a hand pump, I'd need a fairly powerful one? I’d have to look around and see what’s available? I guess I could remove the oil filter and insert airline/air gun into the tiny orifice and pressurize it with compressed air first? If it passes through unhindered, then it would seem apparent that a shell hasn't spun, that however could pop an internal oil seal, so would I guess be most sensible to inject pressurized oil at around 20 to 30 psi, around the pressure generated on a D2 TD5 running at 650 rpm?
I have a small suction pump/pressure pump I use to drain and fill differentials, would that be adequate? I could set my air compressor at around 20-30 psi and insert the nipple directly into the oil filter pip inside the cooler, doubt that would burst any seals and if the passage ways are clear and shells are exactly where they should be, then can’t imagine any obstructions? Obviously there are the fuel pump seals, and oh, “THE TURBOCHARGER SEALS”?? We know what happens when they leak????! I can’t access or remove the turbocharger either or I’d recondition that and port it to perfection for optimal performance and mega boost??! It’s already running at around 240 BHP on a 6 speed manual transmission, it’s like driving an EVO?!
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| 17th Dec 2019 9:28 pm |
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Room_For_Improvement
Member Since: 09 Sep 2019
Location: Bolton
Posts: 20
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Hi Jenseneverest?
It has run for 1.5 - 2 seconds at most in total in two very short bursts, the first time it started instantly I turned it immediately as I wanted to prime the pump when engine wasn’t running, never had any problems doing with a TD5 which generated 3 bar turning on the key, and that soon reached normal operating pressure in around 5-8 seconds on a cold crank with glow plugs and injectors fitted.
The second time it started (my D3 that is) I switched it off straight-away having already removed both fuel pump and glow plug relays/fuses before the second attempt? It must run on fresh air! Obviously, it will never need new glow plugs! I will have to call GT and ask what they've got to say about supplying me with a substandard /defective oil pump.
Sorry, still not figured out how to reply to any of you individually other then sending each of your a PM?
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| 17th Dec 2019 9:41 pm |
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jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 760
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i doubt there has been much damage at this point, hopefully by putting oil down the filter housing gallery's that would now have found its way to the mains and bigends on the crankshaft.
I would go with the sound advise from @Flack & @Disco_Mikey they know there stuff.... replace the pump that is probably crap with a good name branded one that these guys all recommend.
Once replaced, start it up and wait for 5/6 seconds and hopefully your have a good engine for years to come.
Mine just going past the 150k mark and the only thing the engine has had is belts and a pump.
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| 17th Dec 2019 9:58 pm |
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Room_For_Improvement
Member Since: 09 Sep 2019
Location: Bolton
Posts: 20
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I suppose really the oil pump should have come with a quality control/test certificate verifying it's oil pressure capability at normal engine operating temperature across the rev range, would know exactly what I was getting then? I doubt anyone has ever done that? These suppliers just supply pumps in a box or sealed plastic bag and let us work out if it’s all there?
What is wrong with all these cheap aftermarket companies/suppliers? Has it all gone to China like British Steel in the midst of Brexit? Never heard one patriotic politician so much as murmur about that disgraceful episode? Bentley and Rolls-Royce now invest in Monkey metal!! Sorry! BMW/VAG! JLR Tata! Yeah, right one!!!
They must think we enjoy doing this sort of thing for fun!! It is not an engine I can take any risks with, read too many horror stories about spun shells? Maybe that's due to lousy maintenance and overdue oil change intervals? I am not a novice; I actually do this thing for enjoyment!! Maybe I'll get a job promotion and take one giant step from zero to hero? Maybe even show some computer aided design geeks exactly what the problem is with their software simulators!
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| 17th Dec 2019 10:00 pm |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10360
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The oil light won’t go out on one of these in 3 seconds on a rebuilt engine.
At least 6 seconds if not more.
Keep starting and stopping it, your prob doing more damage.
You need to be a bit braver with these.
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| 17th Dec 2019 10:18 pm |
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jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 760
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My understanding on the shells is that it is a design flaw, where the shells have no lugs on them ? I have not have one of these motors in that many bits yet so cant confirm that is the case or not. Shells without lugs are common place, they are a crush fit so once the oil pressure is lost, the enviable bang will follow anyway regardless. I guess with no lugs this happens more quickly once the journals are blocked off from the oil feed.
I personally have now moved to a thicker oil, mines done 150k so well run in, i dont recommend this but i chose to do so 30k miles ago.
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| 17th Dec 2019 10:19 pm |
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the wife
Member Since: 05 Aug 2018
Location: Spalding
Posts: 15
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And this is why a little knowledge is Dangerous 
I know you would have paid a bit for an Indy to do the work but at least it would have been done correct first time
I am an Engineer by trade but i got an indy to do my work as its easier to pay for "Specialist" who work on these all the time and have that bit of extra experience that means a lot TBH.
Good look in getting it done but you seem to have made a bit of a meal of this
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| 17th Dec 2019 10:41 pm |
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Room_For_Improvement
Member Since: 09 Sep 2019
Location: Bolton
Posts: 20
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Hi @ jenseneverest,
I poured around 2 litres of clean 5w30 premium semi-synthetic engine oil directly into the oil cooler/filter housing with a new OEM spec filter fitted and all of the oil passed/drained through the filter and into the engine? Did that after 2 initial very short engine starts when the engine ran for no more than 1 second a time, plus 2 cranks on the key for 10-15 seconds in total with ECM deactivated so the engine would not start?
I don’t know what pathways the oil takes; any ideas on that? I presume the oil must surely have travelled along the correct oil pathways and reached the crankshaft somehow despite zero pressure? Any ideas or thoughts on that score?
Would you drain all of the oil out of the sump and perform the same procedure again, this time applying some nominal pressure to help the oil along the way, around 10 to 20 PSI perhaps is a sensible figure? It would surely then be reasonable to conclude that oil has indeed reached the crankshaft? I’d then manually hand rotate the crank by ~30 degree's for every 1/2 a litre of engine oil added into the oil cooler housing, having added ~5.5 litres, surely the crankshaft would be fully lubricated, the mains that is, not so sure about the big ones on the rods though? What’s your honest opinion?? Are we speaking from first hand experience with these engines or just pure speculation?
Is the crankshaft the first or last in the oil pipeline after the oil has been pressurized and returned to the filter and re-entered the engine? I did not pour oil down the tube in the middle of the oil cooler which it would appear provides the feed/return back-up into the oil cooler chamber? Where is the oil pressure sensor in the grand scheme of things? I know where it’s located on the top left cylinder head, is that the last part in the pipeline to see the oil light? You get what I am saying?
I guess! The oil pump pressurizes the interval cavity at the front of the engine directly behind the pump and must surely propel oil up the front of the engine and internal passages having drawn/sucked up it from the pipe-up strainer pipe? The pump/system has to lubricate the cams, fill the lifters, there are the piston liner spray nozels, High Pressure Fuel Pump and Turbocharger; that’s rather a long route, I wonder how many meters that is?
If a shell has spun then any oil poured into the oil cooler / filter housing would have nowhere to run due to a spun shell and subsequent blocked oil passage ways? The oil would then surely simply overfill and spill into the V between the heads and lubricate the glow plugs?!
Cheers, hope your all cool with these messages and feeds so far so good? 
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| 18th Dec 2019 1:27 pm |
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