not come across any modern engine yet where the pistons don't come UP out of the block with head(s) removed??Pete
1965 S2a with Galv Marslands Chassis - Sold (BIG mistake)
1993 200TDi GS Green 5 Seat Manual - Broken
1993 200TDi GS Grey 7 Seat manual - Sold To Defender Owner to Use Engine
1999 TD5 GS Blenheim Silver 5 Seat Manual - Broken
1999 TD5 GS Oxford Blue 7 Seat Auto - Sold
1999 TD5 ES Epsom Green 6 Seat Auto - Sold
2007 D3 2.7 TDV6 XS Java Black 7 Seat Auto
1999 Swift Classic Coronette
2019 BMW X1 AWD Auto - SWMBO's Car
IID Tool BT
17th Apr 2018 8:17 pm
Dusty
Member Since: 23 Sep 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1022
I think you need to have a serious chat with this garage and perhaps mention Trading Standards.
As far as I can see you've placed your trust in these people to diagnose and fix your D3 and after much down time and £'s the car is running worse and drinking oil. And to add injury to insult and by way of diversionary tactics many other things need attention as well!!
I assume these people are not Land Rover specialist.
Not much help with diagnostics I'm afraid but feel this garage needs taking to task.
Good luck with sorting it.Discovery 4 HSE
SDV6
2015
17th Apr 2018 8:25 pm
Guilefox
Member Since: 10 Jul 2017
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 37
Quote:
Surely, in order to "send the crank for testing" they removed the body, removed the engine, stripped the bottom half to remove the crank. After testing, This was now refitted using new bearing shells/bolts etc ??. then in order to inspect the bores, they removed the pistons from below and/or, removed the cylinder heads ??
Yes they did all the above (apart from last bit). I guess they are able to remove pistons from bottom. So can get away with not checking the top of the engine/cylinder heads? Not sure why after spending thousands on an engine rebuild - they would not check the top of the engine? Is it a case of doing the bare minimum they thought they had to?
19th Apr 2018 8:59 am
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1481
So they sent the crank for testing as part of the rebuild not to determine if it required one. That was the impression i had which seemed strange as the costs involved wouldn't add up if they then said "the engine is fine, here is your big bill".
Andi.
19th Apr 2018 9:24 am
Guilefox
Member Since: 10 Jul 2017
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 37
Actually as I understand it that was the part of the diagnosis.
So in their defence they had no idea of what had happened to the car, what damage had occured or where to start looking. They knew the turbo had gone, and that there was not much oil in engine and it was knocking.
They took the body off, took the engine to pieces. And I was told later in a heated discussion that at this point the engine expert realised it was "F"£%$d" but did not want to bill us for the work and hand us back a broken shell.
So they said the first thing they should do is check the crank (as if that has gone) we may as well replace the entire engine (which in hindsight seems like the better option).
The crank then came back good, they noticed scoring in the cylinders and rebored them. I am not sure exactly what else they did to make the engine work again, but they put it back together and gave it back.
It was idling smoothly - I had to drive it really carefully at low revs for first 500 miles, before oil change - once they changed oil filter and put thicker oil in - I could hear tappet noise and complained (but they seemed to be oblivious to it) and from there onwards it's never quite been right.
don't think theres much hope of getting pistons out through the bottom without destroying them and even if you did how could you compress the rings ti get them back?
edit:- now see it was re-bored so heads defiantly did come offPete
1965 S2a with Galv Marslands Chassis - Sold (BIG mistake)
1993 200TDi GS Green 5 Seat Manual - Broken
1993 200TDi GS Grey 7 Seat manual - Sold To Defender Owner to Use Engine
1999 TD5 GS Blenheim Silver 5 Seat Manual - Broken
1999 TD5 GS Oxford Blue 7 Seat Auto - Sold
1999 TD5 ES Epsom Green 6 Seat Auto - Sold
2007 D3 2.7 TDV6 XS Java Black 7 Seat Auto
1999 Swift Classic Coronette
2019 BMW X1 AWD Auto - SWMBO's Car
IID Tool BT
19th Apr 2018 9:40 am
defector
Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: Greater Manchester
Posts: 1419
But if it was rebored, it would have required new oversized pistons and rings.
19th Apr 2018 4:24 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
Maybe just honed and not bored?
19th Apr 2018 5:17 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
Asa wrote:
I would never suggest I know it all, however I have never heard of a mechanic or workshop suggesting a 1'000 mile oil check?
Was quite common on the trucks a few years ago when excessive oil consumption was an issue, fill to max, run truck until oil level light came on, chuck in 5 litres record mileage and repeat a couple of times, then decide from there.
I think Toyota had some issues with oil consumption again a few years back and I would hazard a guess a similiar test was applied.
19th Apr 2018 5:20 pm
Guilefox
Member Since: 10 Jul 2017
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 37
just to confirm it was rebored - it did have new pistons and rings added
20th Apr 2018 8:19 am
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2863
perhaps it would be worth double checking what was on the paperwork for the work they did to the car and having a conversation with someone who can validate the work has been carried out correctly, it all seems rather odd...Must stop buying shiny toys....
20th Apr 2018 11:59 am
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1481
Thicker oil = noisy tappets ??
Andi.
21st Apr 2018 8:25 am
Sharpy1980
Member Since: 16 Mar 2017
Location: Kent
Posts: 81
Just my 2p worth. From your description I suspect that 1 of the piston rings possibly got broken when they were fitted which would mean the compression would be lower on that cylinder which would cause a diesel knock that could sound like tappets to the untrained ear and it would also explain the oil consumption without it leaking from anywhere as the oil would bypass the rings and be burned away and would get worse with time as the broken ring would make the bore wear unevenly or score the bore, the garage possibly realise there is a problem but don’t want to admit it hence why they could never hear the tappet noise that you could.
I suspect that when pushed they will try and blame you for whatever is wrong with it for running it low on oil. Good luck with it tho
P.S it’s not that unusual for a bottom end only rebuild provided this was offered, the heads would have been removed and put to one side then refitted later as removing 24 valves to replace the valve stem seals and regrind them and have the heads pressure tested and skimmed would have come to roughly £400-£500 but the choice should have been given to you, the valve stem seals is also a common cause of oil consumption.Current
2007 Discovery 3 SE Tdv6 Zermatt
2007 RRS HSE Tdv8 Zermatt
2007 RRS HSE Tdv8 Lugano Teal
Gone
1999 D2 Td5 XS Facelift Java
2000 Freelander who cares
1986 Defender 90 200 Tdi Blue
1996 D1 V8i ES Green
1994 D1 200 tdi S Grey
22nd Apr 2018 5:50 pm
Guilefox
Member Since: 10 Jul 2017
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 37
Just wanted to send an update: I'm totally lost on what to do here.
Recap:
Initially I took the car in as it conked out. Went to first garage who told me turbo had gone.
I could hear it knocking - I took it to the garage it is at now, and said it could be turbo or have damaged engine please inspect and advise.
They took car to pieces and engine apart (without double checking) and sent off crank for testing.
Crank came back OK.
They said they could get a new engine or rebuild it.
I paid about £5500 for a rebuild, new turbo (and other bits).
I was not happy with the sound of the engine afterwards. They said they could not hear it. Also it came up with other errors SYSTEM ENGINE FAILURE (when driving) and would lose power.
Since the the CEL light meant I replaced EGR valve.
They also said suspension needed replacing at £800
The latest issues was it was running rough so took it in.
And was told that it needed the injectors sent off for testing. Which came back with four bad. I replaced these. The garage tried to charge me £400 for aftermarket injectors but I found them for half this price myself. They charged me £500 to fit them. So another £1300.
They've had the car more than I have! And in trying to test it had driven it on a 500 mile trip down to Kent in January.
So after weeks of waiting for the parts and them to test, they've now called me to say the crankshaft has failed! And say it is my fault due to lack of oil since they rebuilt engine!
I can do oil changes, change brake pads and even discs, but do not have a deep or working knowledge of mechanics or engines so not sure what to do or say.
Should I just say look I've paid you the value of this car £8k total ignoring suspension (to fix my engine - either fix it or refuse and then take them to court?)
29th May 2018 11:48 am
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
I suggest you write down all you can remember in an easy to read format ie no rambling just the conversations and the facts then seek legal advice.
The trouble will come when they say you ran it out of oil so its your fault, proving otherwise could be tough.
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