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just seen this on You tube
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lynalldiscovery
 


Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Metropolis LE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

6.00 Mr. Green Mr. Green
  
Post #17170848th Oct 2016 6:02 pm
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Edfors
 


Member Since: 18 Aug 2009
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 65

Sweden 

The old Defender was really well past its best due date, so fully understandable it's gone. The commercial market for Defender on the world scene was really gone already in the 80's when farmers, electrical, gas and other utility companies switched over for the Japanese pick-up trucks, and if you wanted some more soul you bought a US pick-up. But on the home market Defender managed to keep a portion of this, mostly due to entusiasts for the domestic brand.

Commercial versions of Discovery must be a very small market, can't think of anyone except in the UK or possibly Ireland and possibly some other small country where LR is seen as a utility vehicle. Land Rover will surely earn more of each 7-seater HSE sold, so naturally they want to sell these before they start produce commercials on a new model.

I also recognise this critisism to LR as what we had years ago about Volvo when they stopped the local commercial offerings, but that's now many years ago and I guess everyone now buy something different and more fit for purpose. Personally my father changed back in 1981 from a 109" to a Iveco Daily, and the Ivecos or Mercedes' Sprinters that followed have all the abilities or more with better cargo space, four wheel drive and difflock.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a commercial Discovery or a Defender but for most people Discovery are a Range Rover already. Even when I'm seen in my old Discovery 2, 8 out of 10 will call it a Range Rover! And the Defender sold over here was really just a life style vehicle for the city folks who wanted to show something they wasn't.

Look forward in anticipation of the new Defender, which in my dreams are a car that can compete with my old Ford F-350 pickup, it seated 6 in comfort with all electric gizmos in a 3+3 seating and easily loaded 1,5 tonne on the load bed and that with all 6 occupants up front! Tow capacity of 4 tonnes! OK, I may satisfy with GVW of 3.5 tonne on the vehicle and same for the trailer. Understand if they can't compete with the 7.3 litre V8 turbo diesel I had, but a SDV8 is not far away in torque.
  
Post #17170958th Oct 2016 6:24 pm
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Fitzy73
 


Member Since: 09 Feb 2014
Location: Truro
Posts: 2407

United Kingdom 2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 XS Auto Causeway GreyDiscovery 4

Great video and confirms my feelings that with the loss of the Defender and now the Discovery, there are no longer any new Land Rover vehicles I would like to buy.

Whilst I should probably fall into Land Rovers target market for the Discovery Sport Plus Size, in my opinion it is awful and lacking in any Land Rover history/heritage.
 Andy

 
 
Post #17171038th Oct 2016 6:40 pm
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Skep
 


Member Since: 04 Dec 2007
Location: between Sheffield, Chesterfield, Worksop and Mansfield
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United Kingdom 

kev_blizard wrote:
Skep wrote:
Good find Kev!!

Thanks Steve didn't think you came on here much now your a Volvo man Very Happy


I lurk!! Rolling with laughter
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Post #17171678th Oct 2016 8:13 pm
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APL
 


Member Since: 14 Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 1130

France 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial XS Auto Firenze RedDiscovery 4

I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that Land Rover have stopped producing any VAT reclaimable vehicle whatsoever.....

Certainly here in Ireland we are all very annoyed at the situation. At next weeks big launch event here I hope we will all make our views firmly known to the local distributor!
 2016 Discovery 4 Commercial
2019 Discovery 5 HSE 
 
Post #17171758th Oct 2016 8:35 pm
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PDC
 


Member Since: 20 Jul 2016
Location: Warwickshire
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United Kingdom 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 XXV LE Auto Causeway GreyDiscovery 4

I totally agree with him and think that JLR have shot them selves in the foot. All they have in their stables now are a fleet of cars that look more at home in the city than the country side. How many X5, XC90 or RRS for that matter do you see ploughing across fields, there has got to be still a large enough market for the utilitarian looks of the D4 and the Defender. There is of course the over sea's market where many people's daily commute won't be on tarmac, I guess they will be now loosing out to the Japanese pickup market that is getting stronger by the year......... Big Cry
 2010 RR 5.0 Autobiography
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2011 Disco 3.0
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Post #17171938th Oct 2016 9:22 pm
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J77
 


Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
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Scotland 

And the fields are full of D4s Rolling Eyes just as many D4s are parked outside the school gates or in Waitrose car park.

The Defender died a long time ago, farmers and the like were able to get a more comfortable vehicle better equipped at a fraction of the cost and more importantly reliable from the Japanese manufacturers.

LR need money to develop the new Defender so they need vehicles that will sell and sell well, the next Defender needs to sell 70,000 units a year to make it financially viable. There is no room for two utilitarian models, simply not a big enough market. With the D5 going soft then this is the best way of making sure the next Defender is a sales success.
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Post #17172218th Oct 2016 10:57 pm
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lynalldiscovery
 


Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
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United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Metropolis LE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Vid appears to have been deleted?
  
Post #17172319th Oct 2016 2:06 am
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Red Merle
 


Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
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You're right. It's not just the link, it's gone from YouTube as well. How disappointing.

I wonder what the story is there?
 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car

2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!) 
 
Post #17172409th Oct 2016 6:23 am
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crews control
 


Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Waitomo GreyDiscovery 4

J77 wrote:
There is no room for two utilitarian models, simply not a big enough market. With the D5 going soft then this is the best way of making sure the next Defender is a sales success.

That's strange logic ??? The market seems big enough for 5 overpriced luxury car park cruisers and LR now don't make a single utilitarian model. Not sure that's the best way of supporting the brand or making anything a success going forward. Remember, fashion moves on quickly... and then LR have got nothing!
Shocked
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Post #17172459th Oct 2016 7:08 am
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Mr.Tom
 


Member Since: 01 Jun 2014
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United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Waitomo GreyDiscovery 4

I cannot see the link / video, it says it's private. Big Cry

They need to make a damnsite more than 70k defender per year though. They sold more than that in its last 9 months.

A successful model needs to sell more like 40k to 80k per month.

However look at this,
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/de...018-launch

SWMBO first response was "that looks like one of those Censored jacked up pretend off road minis"
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Post #17172469th Oct 2016 7:14 am
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Red Merle
 


Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438

United Kingdom 

Post removed by RM - Post no longer relevant.
 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car

2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!) 


Last edited by Red Merle on 9th Oct 2016 8:29 am. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #17172499th Oct 2016 7:30 am
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Red Merle
 


Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438

United Kingdom 

Mr.Tom wrote:

A successful model needs to sell more like 40k to 80k per month.

However look at this,
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/de...018-launch

SWMBO first response was "that looks like one of those Censored jacked up pretend off road minis"


JLR's entire combined monthly production is only around 41,000 cars, so 40-80,000 for a single model might be a little excessive.

You can safely forget the image in AutoExpress - they just make stuff up. To illustrate the point, here's their "scoop" for the Discovery Sport (that is, the smaller of the two new Discovery Sports!):

 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car

2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!) 
 
Post #17172529th Oct 2016 7:40 am
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Red Merle
 


Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438

United Kingdom 

I've been in communication with the man in the video and he's just given me the reason why the video was taken down. I've asked him if it's okay to publish the reasoning on here....

Update - He said "feel free":

Me: Will your excellent video on the lack of commercial options for the Land Rover be coming back?

Lord Muck: It will John, I took it down after receiving wonderful support and huge (for me) viewing figures but then started getting messages from various organisations who wanted to use it to promote their own agenda, e.g "Ban 4x4's from cities" etc.
That's not why I did it and I certainly didn't do it for someone else to use it for their own gain.
It's still lurking around.... it will reappear.
And thanks for the support.
 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car

2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!) 
 
Post #17172619th Oct 2016 7:59 am
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Lost for Words
 


Member Since: 03 Sep 2013
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United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

crews control wrote:
J77 wrote:
There is no room for two utilitarian models, simply not a big enough market. With the D5 going soft then this is the best way of making sure the next Defender is a sales success.

That's strange logic ??? The market seems big enough for 5 overpriced luxury car park cruisers and LR now don't make a single utilitarian model. Not sure that's the best way of supporting the brand or making anything a success going forward. Remember, fashion moves on quickly... and then LR have got nothing!
Shocked


Indeed. There's more than enough room for two utilitarian models - one a full-on utility truck (Defender) and one a truly brilliant compromise (Discovery). A single vehicle would not replace the Disco and Defender - the Disco is too refined and expensive; the Defender is to inefficient and basic. There is plenty of demand for a vehicle that is tough and practical but refined enough for long distance trips, and a cheap and reliable, off-road utility vehicle to compete with the Jap-trucks.

The Defender needed updating big-time, but it's still too far off to merge it with the Disco in a single vehicle without considerable compromises. In fact, the Disco-Defender relationship is arguably what the original RR was to the LR and what a difference that was. Thumbs Up
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Post #17172669th Oct 2016 8:14 am
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