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The Large One
Member Since: 20 Apr 2007
Location: Down the polytunnel
Posts: 6143
  
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slipware wrote:I've no time for the scum of the gutter press. When my son had a terrible accident, they were knocking at my door asking me how I felt!!! I have, years ago, cancelled alll local papers, and I never get a national paper. They don't deserve my hard earned...
haven't bought a "what i call newspaper" since Diana died
couldn't stand all the crap that was printed. Still can't  all scum and vermin. TLO has left the building.......
I no longer work for a Landrover Dealer
My little chilli sauce business http://www.thechillees.co.uk
if you would like to order anything just give me a shout
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 18th Sep 2009 4:49 pm |
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mzplcg
Member Since: 23 Jun 2009
Location: Gone
Posts: 1087
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JamesG01 wrote:The sensationalisation of these stories would be all right as long as when the b  ds got caught they were made to pay very handsomely and publicly for their crimes. (Such as public hanging for murder, for instance.
James, I agree with all you say regarding the softening of society but not the above statement.
The difficulty comes (for me anyway) in that it can never be undone if justice has failed for any reason. Remember the words of Ghandi as an example. "An eye for an eye and the whole world ends up blind". Even the infamous Albert Pierrepoint is quoted just before he died in the 70's as saying "all it ever achieved was revenge". That from a man who hanged over 600 people.
However, ia fully agree that punishment has gone soft. Perhaps the return of hard labour and removal of 500 SKY channels, 3 square meals etc might make it less attractive. I don't really know, all I know is that I believe capital punishment to be wrong. It simply reduces society to the same level as the perpetrators and that cannot be allowed to happen.
Dom
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| 18th Sep 2009 5:42 pm |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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MacLeod 313 wrote:weimeys mum wrote:Have any of you social norm people actually thought outside the box ?
how many of you actually read leaflets that come through your door ?
As for the puppy from hell, you get out of a dog what you put in so maybe you should not be so quick to judge
Bit of a Mis quote there Jase Sarah listen's to the news caus shes blind hence she dont read so the news is one of the mediums
Poison Weimies lets just not go there or for any dog as it happens whats a cat not seen one of those for years 
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| 18th Sep 2009 7:15 pm |
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DigitalJunior
Member Since: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 4398
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mzplcg wrote:ad15 wrote:
lets not even get started on the swine flu lark.... has that miraculously gone away? or has the number infected gone above the number a newsreader can count to.
I was reading some info on this a while back which made me curious enough to go check some bit out for myself.
Swine flu was supposed to be a pandemic. It was started with an outbreak in Mexico which had previously had issues with regular flu. That much seems to be true.
So, the chosen vaccine to combat this was Tamiflu, something we've heard loads about on the news. Now, Tamiflu is manufactured by a large American pharmaceutical company called Baxters, something else I managed to verify as being accurate.
Tamiflu is the anti-virual if you catch the virus not a vaccine against catching it. The vaccine will start to be given very soon to specific groups of people.
In the NHS there is still a huge amount of planning going on ready for if it turns into a pandemic. But the media do cause a lot of people to worry and cause distress about this subject. SOLD - 23my Range Rover Sport D300 Dynamic SE
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| 18th Sep 2009 7:59 pm |
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JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 376
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mzplcg
I respect your opinion and fully believe that good people can agree to disagree on those points. (I have had this same conversation with a very dear friend of mine who quoted the exact same two quotes.)
Recently, however, an anti-death penalty statistician who was looking to prove that capital punishment was not a deterrent did a very large study in the US comparing states that did and did not have capital punishment, comparing murder rates and loads of other factors. He would also look at rates in states before and after they abolish the death penalty.
(I wish I could cite him, but I've forgotten his name and the book he wrote; I heard him on an American talk radio show.)
No matter how he tried to cut the numbers, when he adjusted for all the other factors involved, it turned out that every time the death penalty was exercised, it would "deter" at least three more murders as compared with states that did not have the death penalty.. He found an even greater life "saving" if the death penalty was exercised closer to the time of the original crimes...It would have a knock-on effect of saving 5 lives.
I would rather justice be seen in the 99.9999% of cases that get tried correctly than it not be seen in that last bit. Unfortunately the scale has tipped too far in the other direction: the average scrote in this country goes in front of a judge something like 70 times before actually going to jail for anything. That certainly isn't justice and does not imbue a sense of respect for the law which harsher measures would bring about.
Peter Hitchens in his Abolition of Crime book rightly points out that most of the assaults that happen now would have ended up as murder thirty years ago if not for medical advances since the abolition of the death penalty. I think we have a real problem now.
As an aside, I knew a guy who got sent to prison for 5 years (when I was a teenager in the US) for bringing a hit of acid to school. It ruined his life, and it was not right. But guess what? No one who knew of this case would take that sort of chance again. 55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
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| 18th Sep 2009 8:01 pm |
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mzplcg
Member Since: 23 Jun 2009
Location: Gone
Posts: 1087
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Absolutely James. I still agree with all you say except the death penalty bit. There has to be a deterrent and this would be a rather good start. Prison today is no punishment at all. The only thing I see that it achieves is to allow criminals to gather in one place and learn from each other.
5 years for a hit of acid? That's reasonable in my book. Any hallucinogenic drug leads to a state of mind where reason and normality go out of the window and it's at times like this when laws are broken.
As to whether or not the death penalty is actually a deterrent I have no personal experience. It seems silly to go down that route before other solutions have been tried such as making prison life a lot more like punishment than a holiday.
99.999%. Hmmm. In the grand scheme of things I don't see that statistic as being incorrect. But when one considers the sheer number of scrotes up in court every day the remaining 0.001% can be a number worthy of serious consideration. Take the known and high profile cases like the Guildford 4, Birmingham 6 etc. There's 10 men who would have been hanged for something they didn't do (according to the court of appeal)
Don't get me wrong, there is no doubt in my mind that they were up to no good at the time but the facts are the convictions were not sound. And IMHO, it is better that a thousand guilty men go free than 1 innocent man goes to the gallows. A clichet yes, but I just think of that 1 innocent man being me. That's plenty enough reason for me to object to the death penalty.
Otherwise Sir, I think we agree. Bring back hard labour, the birch, oh and how about some discipline in schools? That wouldn't go amiss either. And it might just stop a lot of this criminal activity before it starts which is why I think you advocate the death penalty. I guess my methods are just different although I recognise I could be wrong about the stats you quote from the USA. From what I know, life in a US Penitentiary is anything other than a holiday, certainly a lot harder than a UK prison. That fact alone though is still not enough to convince me just yet.
And one final point. It's 30 years of bleeding heart liberalism and junk like the human rights act which have gotten us where we are today. It's high time we ditched both policies. And is is not strange that when all these lowlifes complain about their rights, they all, to a man, seem to conveniently forget about their responsibilities?? Therein I think lies the evidence. Everyone has responsibilities and if they fail to deliver we should strip them of their rights.
Good discussion BTW.
Dom.
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| 19th Sep 2009 5:10 am |
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JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 376
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Quote:Good discussion BTW.
Dom,
The feeling's mutual...  55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
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| 19th Sep 2009 9:13 am |
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MacLeod 313
Member Since: 18 Apr 2008
Location: away
Posts: 10723
 
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Ken wrote:MacLeod 313 wrote:weimeys mum wrote:Have any of you social norm people actually thought outside the box ?
how many of you actually read leaflets that come through your door ?
As for the puppy from hell, you get out of a dog what you put in so maybe you should not be so quick to judge
Bit of a Mis quote there Jase Sarah listen's to the news caus shes blind hence she dont read so the news is one of the mediums
Poison Weimies lets just not go there or for any dog as it happens whats a cat not seen one of those for years
Sorry Ken, did'nt know, and not my right to know. Was'nt aiming a low blow but just saying that some of us do actively follow/help the local RSPCA, and we are actively leaflet droping too. As for your Weimys, georgous woofs and obviously your house would be cat free 
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| 19th Sep 2009 10:43 am |
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