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DiscoDad
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: Beautiful Teesdale
Posts: 3003
  
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Taken from RoSPA Site. http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/dri...rboxes.htm
"When stationary in traffic, even for many minutes, it is not necessary to move the gear lever into neutral because the torque converter absorbs the engine’s propulsion force but does not transmit it all to the gearbox. No wear is taking place. In fact, more wear will take place if you engage neutral then engage a drive gear when it is possible to move off. Most gearboxes will automatically select first gear when the vehicle becomes stationary".
I also apply the handbrake and only take my foot off the foot brake when another vehicle has pulled up behind me.
I'm not saying that RoSPA are the absolute oracle on all things, but as an ex police driver I was always taught this, and as an engineer can understand the theory behind it.
This only applies to auto's though!
Sitting at the lights in a manual in gear will cause uneccessary wear on the cluch as I'm sure everyone knows!
Here endeth the semon according to discodad! 
. Back in the game!
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 22nd Feb 2007 9:24 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
 
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errrr... so where does this torque go then? at best, it'll increase your fuel consumption - sorry, can't agree with RoSPA on that at all! increasing the pressure & temperature of fluid drive systems will cause increased wear eventually - and holding all the torque not dumped by the pressure relief valves on the brakes will increase wear on the drivetrain
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| 22nd Feb 2007 9:32 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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Well I don't wish to  on your fire DD but the Drivers manual clearly states on p175 that the change from low to high ratio can be done with an auto box by moving from Drive into Neutral up to a max speed of 38mph.
The manual also states on p169 that you should " select Neutral when the vehicle is stationary and the engine is required to idle for brief periods (at traffic lights for example) " 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 22nd Feb 2007 9:43 pm |
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DiscoDad
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: Beautiful Teesdale
Posts: 3003
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Changing from Hi to Lo whilst on the move is one thing. Obviously the 'box needs to be in neutral if you are going to do this. I just don't think that it's a good thing to do so in normal driving situations like traffic jams etc.
Also at traffic lights.. Different theories from different people, neither of them wrong IMO.
The torque converter is only turning slowly on tickover and not causing the fluid to drive the 'box. (It may creep forward but this is only like a viscous coupling spinning freely at this point).
Heat build up will be negligable and there is plenty of room for fluid expansion and recirculation within the system so there would be no pressure build up. If this were the case you would set off like a rocket when you lifted off the brakes!
If you put it into neutral the torque converter would spin the primary shaft within the autobox.
Remember, we are not talking about a prolonged period of time here. I have owned auto-box cars for the last 18 years, including a RR classic for 8 of them, and have not had a single problem.
Just my preference that's all.  Back in the game!
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| 22nd Feb 2007 10:30 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23336
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So nothing has changed then, there are still two schools of thought, the keep it in drive & the put into neutral. Interesting arguments for & against though.
As an engineering numpty, it just feels better to me to put it into neutral. So I'll continue doing just that.
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| 23rd Feb 2007 1:55 pm |
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freebie2disco
Member Since: 01 Jan 2007
Location: wantage
Posts: 334
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Well for my part I think there is two schools of thought. Drive a auto or a proper car with a clutch and gear stick. Of course it should be silver as well.
Ducks out of the bar and makes hasty get away.
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| 23rd Feb 2007 2:10 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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LT wrote: there are still two schools of thought,
Yep...one is Land Rover and the other is DD 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 23rd Feb 2007 2:25 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23336
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To be fair to DD, I've owned both auto. & manual cars for the last 21 years. The arguments for & against putting auto.s into neutral whilst idling have always existed. I expect they always will.
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| 23rd Feb 2007 2:41 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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Well I've been driving for longer than that even .... ..so lets not have a competition 
My point with DD isn't about personal preference...in fact I have have been known to leave my auto in drive for short periods as well  ..but we have to be careful when making statements like 'you shouldn't' or 'it's best' to do those things as a definitive statement when the manual says completely the opposite. Thats all 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 23rd Feb 2007 3:54 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23336
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dickgriff wrote:Well I've been driving for longer than that even .... ..so lets not have a competition
Me too, but not in cars that I've owned. I was into motorbikes when I was younger, when I needed a car I borrowed one. No competition though, I'd bet you're older than me 
Actually, my Dad always had auto.s & I remember the argument existed then. Probably has since the first auto. box was used. I've yet to hear a really convincing (to me as a non-techy) reason that it is better for the life of box to leave it in drive all the time.
For Police & defensive drivers etc. then I'd agree that leaving it in drive is potential safer for the occupants of the vehicle, as it would afford a quicker response time.
Maybe a forum poll is in order?
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| 23rd Feb 2007 4:34 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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I've driven Auto's for about 8 years (always swore by Manual before that) & I always leave it in drive & use the footbrake. Unless it's in a 'real' traffic jam where I'll put the stationary brake on, Neutral, & maybe even switch off the engine if it's not too cold outside. Roll up my sleeves, find another driver with a newspaper to borrow & settle down for a nice read.......... Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 23rd Feb 2007 5:17 pm |
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