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L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2080
  
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When I have had any issues to raise with LR I have always directed them straight away to the CEO/ Managing director level, not customer relations. So far this as worked well . I believe staff are more likely to respond if an instruction comes from 'above' rather than following the process.
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 17th Jul 2018 8:42 am |
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BAZ8046
Member Since: 26 Feb 2010
Location: Chatham
Posts: 278
 
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I think you are stuck with paying for the repair to get the car back and on the road.
It’s terrible that LR won’t deal with the issue straight away but don’t let them get away with it.
It will cost more to use a LR dealer for the repair but will give them less reasons to get out of paying if you have to take them through the courts.
Mine failed before the original recall was done so no issues getting mine sorted out and they replaced the servo as well.
As you say they are great cars and well worth the effort  D4 2016 Landmark, Waitomo Grey.
D3 2005 HSE, Bonatti Grey, now sold but still comes back for servicing.
Defender 2002 Td5 Commercial, had a hard life but slowly being restored.
I only work so I can afford to repair my Land Rovers!
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| 17th Jul 2018 9:45 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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My view is that although I feel for you and your family you nevertheless have a 12 year old motor and the PO17 work was carried out 8 years ago ....what is your expectation? 
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| 17th Jul 2018 9:53 pm |
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ILC
Member Since: 26 Nov 2011
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 73
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I've no doubt I will have to pay for the repair and initially I would have simply done that as part and parcel of general motoring costs and replacement of components. (Old it may be but it is in excellent mechanical condition and is well looked after).
Following a quick check on here I was able to find out there had been a safety recall I wasn't aware of and didn't know if it had been done to my old D3 or not.
My expectation from LR is to be simply treated with some level of courtesy, whether its a 12 year old Discovery or a new Vogue. Unfortunately they've failed on this occasion!
I didn't know about PO17 recalls until the brakes failed and the information on here gave me the information to approach LR to find out if the work had been done under PO17.... and that's where it went down hill. They would not entertain me, talk to me, or assist. Defences and draw bridges straight up from the start!
Regardless of that, it's the best motor I've ever owned and will be trundling around before too long.  Discovery 3
L322 Vogue
Defender 90 - 1993
David Brown 885
All Gone: Range Rover Classic 2 Door - 1978/Land Rover Series IIA - 1964/Land Rover 90 - 1987/Land Rover Series III - Air Portable - 1979
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| 18th Jul 2018 7:21 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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But in response to your 12 year old vehicle and 8 year old repair
Quote:Thank you for your email dated 10th July. I am sorry to learn of the issue you have experienced recently with your Land Rover and I understand how you must feel having been faced with this unexpected repair.
I would confirm that P017 has previously been carried out on your vehicle. However, due to the restrictions placed on us by the General Data Protection regulations, I am unable to confirm when and where this was carried out.
Land Rover is a responsible and supportive manufacturer and will consider goodwill gestures towards repairs costs. Such support however is not without limitation and is subject to criteria.
Having said the above, I would advised that regrettably, we are not in a position to assist with the cost of the current repairs needed to your vehicle.
I am sorry I am unable to respond more positively to your enquiry. Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
That is a perfectly reasonable reply and you have made it seem otherwise in your subsequent responses.
Quote:I've just sent another email directly to LR, with all the key words about danger, duty of care, etc
Their warranty is for 3 years ...their responsibility to repair under recall has been completed. Anything could have happened in 8 years tbh ....they owe you nothing tbh.
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| 18th Jul 2018 7:38 am |
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Hardware
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 12709
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Didn't think VOSA set time limits on safety recalls ? if the work has been done but not to a good enough standard to fix the issue, surely the recall should still be applicable ?
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| 18th Jul 2018 9:29 am |
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ILC
Member Since: 26 Nov 2011
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 73
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tbh it's a serious safety issue LR and Discovery 3 owners need to know about.
No accident on this occasion, but others may not be so lucky!
If after a number of years the recall work does not hold out, due to fair wear and tear etc. (understandable as components do not last forever) then a check of this should possibly be part of a LR safety bulletin and included in subsequent services and inspections.
This may already be the case, however, they didn't communicate this to me in my initial approach to them for information.
tbh if they'd dealt with me in a reasonable manner in the first instance and supplied the information I asked for, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Anyway it's already booked in for the work to be done and I'll be asking for a check of the servo every time it's in for a service. Discovery 3
L322 Vogue
Defender 90 - 1993
David Brown 885
All Gone: Range Rover Classic 2 Door - 1978/Land Rover Series IIA - 1964/Land Rover 90 - 1987/Land Rover Series III - Air Portable - 1979
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| 18th Jul 2018 10:06 am |
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BAZ8046
Member Since: 26 Feb 2010
Location: Chatham
Posts: 278
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The issue here is that it is a known design issue that is already covered by a safety recall.
If the initial fix, which was designed and implemented by LR, is not effective then LR should not be walking away from the issue.
This is not wear and tear it is a fundament issue with the design.
I'm sure VOSA would be interested to know that the original fix implemented by LR did not work! D4 2016 Landmark, Waitomo Grey.
D3 2005 HSE, Bonatti Grey, now sold but still comes back for servicing.
Defender 2002 Td5 Commercial, had a hard life but slowly being restored.
I only work so I can afford to repair my Land Rovers!
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| 18th Jul 2018 10:28 am |
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blueanchorinn
D3 Decade
Member Since: 07 Mar 2006
Location: In a pub in Devon
Posts: 973
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Bit ageist there DG. As an off road plod you should be more PC😂
Non service item should reasonably last a lot longer than they do and to be honest a five year old with a sketch a pad could of designed a solution better than the “Heath Robinson” fix that the recall did. Pot Noodle Challenge Winner 2011
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person
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| 18th Jul 2018 12:11 pm |
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Ja92mie
Member Since: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1259
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Agree
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| 18th Jul 2018 12:21 pm |
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jeeptj
Member Since: 22 Jun 2018
Location: Washington
Posts: 34
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Problem here is they didn't fix the problem with the recall, they bodged it up to last longer hence the additional inline valve, the later recall unlike the original one replaced both valves on the Vacuum pump not just the one and i believe the internal valve part was a slightly different design but don't hold me to that.
By adding the extra valve inline LR basically admitted there fix at the pump would not work for the duration of the pumps lifetime so hence why i say they bodged it. now just say at the time of recall, they changed one valve on my pump, Not two. and put new pipes on with an addition valve, now i have a servo that i have just removed 90ml of oil from so there fixed valve has failed then the additional valve has failed too, so I can understand especially with brakes why people including myself would want land rover to pay for this work as the system was not fit for use when built and still was not fit for use after recall otherwise we would not be having this conversation would we.
As I have previously said, if they fitted a sealed oil catch tank the situation could of been monitored at service to see if any oil was getting through valves, without the danger of affecting someones brakes which as i understand ranges from very hard peddle that is almost impossible to stop which I've had three times to complete hydraulic failure and no peddle at all.
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| 18th Jul 2018 12:57 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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There is no evidence that the original fix failed .... A failure took place 8 years after it was carried out. Proving they are related is key. Chances imo are zero.
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| 19th Jul 2018 1:58 am |
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jeeptj
Member Since: 22 Jun 2018
Location: Washington
Posts: 34
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I had engine oil in my servo from vacuum pump. I think it's self explanatory the valves in the vacuum pump and the inline valve have failed to allow this, you can see oil in the new style pipe.
There's a lot of vehicles that run servo vacuum pumps that don't out oil into servo during the entire life of the vehicle.
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| 19th Jul 2018 4:51 am |
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ILC
Member Since: 26 Nov 2011
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 73
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Dear all,
I'm sure there are many differing views on this topic.
I relation to my particular case, I am happy to say that I am now in contact with JLR directly and I also have a point of contact at their head office. This has resulted in a sensible and constructive dialogue with them.
With my research and the experiences and opinions of the members on this site (which are as usual invaluable and I thank you for that!) I have moved forward considerably, whereby JLR are investigating my concerns and are also assisting in giving me the information I asked for on my initial approach.
I see it as a very simple process for them: They receive the information, the examine the available evidence, they look at any additional circumstances, examine components, write a report with recommendations and throughout that process keep me informed of the progress.
I don't think this is an unreasonable methodology regardless of the age of the vehicle or when recall repairs were carried out.
The basis of an investigation such as this and the eventual outcome, may well determine their future policy towards the issue.
If its a back covering exercise by them, they are not alone in doing that. But at least I now know that they have taken my concerns seriously, as in the future I certainly wouldn't want to be reading about a fatality and saying; "That happened to me in my D3 a few years ago, but fortunately I didn't knock anyone over!
Thanks again for everyone's input. Discovery 3
L322 Vogue
Defender 90 - 1993
David Brown 885
All Gone: Range Rover Classic 2 Door - 1978/Land Rover Series IIA - 1964/Land Rover 90 - 1987/Land Rover Series III - Air Portable - 1979
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| 19th Jul 2018 7:24 am |
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BAZ8046
Member Since: 26 Feb 2010
Location: Chatham
Posts: 278
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Good news, glad you managed to get an appropriate response.
Let us know how you get on D4 2016 Landmark, Waitomo Grey.
D3 2005 HSE, Bonatti Grey, now sold but still comes back for servicing.
Defender 2002 Td5 Commercial, had a hard life but slowly being restored.
I only work so I can afford to repair my Land Rovers!
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| 19th Jul 2018 9:00 am |
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