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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Hi guys, I have most of the accessory and D3 component prices, excluding fitting, which in my area is about £90 per hour or part of. For instance:
Half length rear 'shaped' rubber mat for load area £139 (part no EBF500010)
Same, but flat £82 (part no EAH500070PMA)
3rd row rubber mats £26 (part no EAH500100PMA)
2.7 diesel engine £3525 (part no 1357022)
Get this, the pre-heater costs about £700 (main part no JEC000790) thats one of the bits LR don't want to know about.
Cannot find the software YET 
Good info I think.  Please do not flood me with requests as I do not have Broad band like most of you. 
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 17th Apr 2005 11:47 am |
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Big Al
Member Since: 20 Jan 2005
Location: Wiltshire UK
Posts: 143
 
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BN,
LR are having a laugh, aren't they charging £700 for the pre-heater which is already there, and softoware also already there, although not funtioning due to a bug!!
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| 17th Apr 2005 12:54 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Could that be a pre-heater for the Petrol D3?, the pre-heater (as far as the engine rather than cabin heating function is concerned) is required on the diesel cars as apparently modern diesels don't generate enough heat themselves!
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| 17th Apr 2005 1:29 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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The price is for the diesel pre-heater. The car can in fact produce enough heat because the Jag does not have a pre-heater, which is the same engine in the 'S' type. It appears that the pre-heater is a decendant of the RR and Disco2. I am still convinced that LR have made the mistake with the fuel tank, that is why they do not want it to work. The fuel tank is part no WHK000158 and priced at £411 by the way.
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| 17th Apr 2005 4:18 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Yes, I'd forgotten about the Jag engine. I'm sure I've seen claims elsewhere that the fuel burning heater was necesary to generate enough engine heat, but bearing in mind the Jag engine that would appear to be wrong & almost sounds like an excuse for why it works as an engine heater only! Just does not make sense that they (despite their protestations) would ever have installed a heater of that cost without having intended to fully implement the software 
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| 17th Apr 2005 4:35 pm |
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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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Don't for get the version of the engine in the Jag has less oil as it's not expected to be required to work at extreme angles. Possibly the extra oil in the Disco version means it runs cooler?
Simon
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| 17th Apr 2005 10:19 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Simon, I don't think it is that reason the pre-heater has been fitted, although I am open to factual answers from LR. I think it is because the cabin is huge and in areas that we go to, such as Siberia we should be able to pre warm both engine and cabin, hence the idea of the heater. I am still totally convinced it is the shape of the fuel tank that is at the root of the problem. Anyone looking in from Land Rover willing to give a factual answer? 
Last edited by BN on 18th Apr 2005 7:59 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 18th Apr 2005 7:34 am |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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BN wrote: I am still totally convinced it is the shape of the fuel tank that it at the root of the problem.
Interestingly, when I met with the LR Regional Technical Manager to go over the various issues/flaws/bugs with my car, one of the problems I raised was the lack of accuracy of the range function on the trip computer - he related this to the similar issue of the fuel guage itself not being linear & gave an explanation of the fuel tank shape being almost akin to 2 separate tanks (but not 2 actual tanks like in some Jags) with there being some balancing going on between the 2 parts of the tank. This was apparently the reason for the inaccuracies. I certainly got the impression that it was a design feature that he was not particularly keen on
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| 18th Apr 2005 7:44 am |
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Wineman
Member Since: 25 Jan 2005
Location: UK/France
Posts: 103
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"I am still totally convinced it is the shape of the fuel tank that is at the root of the problem". BN can you explain your hypothesis re fuel tanks and FBH? 2017 Disco5 First Edition(On Order)
2013 Disco4 HSE Luxury
2012 Disco4 HSE
2005 Disco03 TDV6 HSE
2002 Disco02 TD5 ES
1987 Defender 90(MOD)
2002 Fendt 180 Tractor
1950 Massey Ferguson Tractor
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| 18th Apr 2005 8:04 am |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Yes, the tank is long and thin as apposed to a normal off road tank which is rectangular. The rectangular tank allows for fuel to be picked up at most angles, i.e, when off road. The D3 tank is long and fixed front to rear. As a result when climbing a hill fuel goes to the back of the tank and visa versa. To over come this LR had to fit a 'bucket' at the pickup point for the fuel inside the tank. In order to fill the bucket the fuel pump has to work. When the pre-heater is working it has its own system to collect fuel, therefore if it is pre set it is possible to 'drain' the pickup bucket in the fuel tank. However with such a large fuel filter the car may be able to start, but will soon stop and abruptly as a lack of fuel results before the bucket can be refilled. This in turn can cause damage to the catalytic converters. Easy fix, disable the pre-heater when the vehicle is parked. RR's have a rectangualr tank and it works, so did the old D2.
Land Rover (Ford) destroy my theory, I am not proud, I want answers?
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| 18th Apr 2005 8:14 am |
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Wineman
Member Since: 25 Jan 2005
Location: UK/France
Posts: 103
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Sounds convincing to me! 2017 Disco5 First Edition(On Order)
2013 Disco4 HSE Luxury
2012 Disco4 HSE
2005 Disco03 TDV6 HSE
2002 Disco02 TD5 ES
1987 Defender 90(MOD)
2002 Fendt 180 Tractor
1950 Massey Ferguson Tractor
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| 18th Apr 2005 8:23 am |
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cmyers_uk
Member Since: 10 Apr 2005
Location: Near Bristol, UK
Posts: 433
 
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BN,
Lets assume your correct and its the design of the tank thats causing the problem, which would tally because if it was a simple fix it would have been done.
Ive looked through all my brochures and a pre heater is not offered as an option or mentioned in the specs for the vehicle. Therefore whilst I would love this feature I didnt buy it and it wasnt sold to me . The fact that the software is there is no different from devices like camcorders that share the same firmware across models but features are only activated on certain models.
I cant see from LR point of view why they would bother to recall all D3's changing the tanks at a large cost to make a feature work that would normally be a cost option £1000 in the case of the range rover.
Instead the sensible way to do it is next year to release a new variant , you know series 3h with all the design changes that have come about from running the LR3's in the real world. Then no doubt you will see it as a cost option.
In the mean time I would rather have this functionality by means of a frig than keep complaining until LR are forced to remove the frig in the next software update.
An alternative point of view
Regards
Chris
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| 18th Apr 2005 8:57 am |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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I see what you are saying, but I have a spec sheet that I did when researching the D3 way back and it clearly stated 'then' a pre-heater was fitted. I actually asked LR HQ and they said one was fitted. My reasons, because we go to both hot and cold climates. The pre-heater at that time was a bonus to be honest, but it was there. On delivery a pre-heater was found to be fitted as stated in both writing and words, which cannot be pre-programmed even though, like others I also have the software and facilities in my car, plus other features that are not correct. I only want answers from LR and the things to work that should do as promissed.
Possibly a stupid question, but why is it called a pre-heater?
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| 18th Apr 2005 9:55 am |
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NightFox
Member Since: 02 Apr 2005
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 125
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cmyers_uk wrote:
Ive looked through all my brochures and a pre heater is not offered as an option or mentioned in the specs for the vehicle. Therefore whilst I would love this feature I didnt buy it and it wasnt sold to me . The fact that the software is there is no different from devices like camcorders that share the same firmware across models but features are only activated on certain models.
There’s actually quite a difference: on the camera there is no actual functionality just unused software, which to all intents and purposes is invisible to the user, whereas with this issue, we have the hardware and the software and the functionality – it is just that the functionality is impaired. Whether the pre-heater was included in the vehicles’ published specification is largely immaterial, as under UK law, an offered specification is considered a “minimum requirementâ€, anything additional provided at the time of purchase is not excluded from any legal obligation. Otherwise, the spec of any item (not just cars) would have to be massive to ensure appropriate consumer protection.
The fact that I could walk into any LR dealer, see that there is a Webasto heater fitted and connected, and see that there is a cabin pre-heat setting for this in the menu would reasonably lead to me expect that I would be receiving this functionality if I bought the vehicle, unless before purchase I was specifically told that the pre-heater function was non-operable.
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| 18th Apr 2005 11:35 am |
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cmyers_uk
Member Since: 10 Apr 2005
Location: Near Bristol, UK
Posts: 433
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Nightfox,
The sony video camera I have has the hardware and software ability to to import and export via its firewire port. The functionality is diasabled by the manufacturer. Using a workaround I can enable it so I can use this feature.
Regards the Landrover, they quite rightly can say that the heater is there to speedup warming the coolant when the temperature is below five degrees. The software is there but inactive as the bus is turned off. Yes there are ways of making it work but not as the manufacture designed. ie. leaving the radio on.
Until somebody takes ford on this point as a test case we will not know the legal situation. But what you can be assured of is if it is more economic to fight it than fix it that is what they will do.
Out of curiosity honestly did you look under the bonnet , see the heater, check the menu and make that assumption?
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| 18th Apr 2005 12:02 pm |
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