Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 136
Smart keys stopped working completely
Got a call from wife this morning saying she got the message "smart key not detected" when pushing start/stop button. Fortunately we have the trusty D2 V8 as backup so she was able to get to work.
Did some investigation this evening and analysis shows:
- Both fob's are "dead", none of the buttons do anything, changed battery on one without change
- Engine cannot be started with the smart key in pocket since display shows "smart key not detected"
- Engine can be started if the fob is pressed up to the steering column as described in user manual
- Checked with IID tool and faultcode "B1B01-87 (2E) Key transponder - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message" is present
- Tried to disconnect battery for an hour or so to no avail.
- Everything else seems to work as normal, including lock/unlock using the button inside
Have not had any similar issues before.
Any advice on where to start looking?
26th Sep 2018 8:25 pm
1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 136
Confirmed power and ground to the KVM module, it's OK (same with all related fuses)
I don't see any other issues pointing at a medium speed Can problem, so I'm thinking that the KVM module is suspect. CJB being another option, but since starting is fine using the IAU under the steering column it seems less likely.
What can be done with IID tool to establish if the KVM is alive?
If I buy a new KVM module, can IID tool be used to program it?
30th Sep 2018 8:39 pm
dgardel
Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: Greater Venice
Posts: 2025
Have you tried to re-learn the key with the IIDTool?
From the Workshop manual:
B1B01-87 (2E)
Short circuit a
mass,
short circuit
on nutrition,
open circuit,
high resistance
in the LIN bus circuit
of the antenna unit
immobilizer
Open circuit o
high resistance
in the circuit of
power supply o
mass of the module
vehicle without a key
Open circuit o
high resistance
in the circuit of
power supply or of
mass of the
RF receiver
Short circuit a
mass or su
supply,
open circuit o
high resistance
in the circuits
of the passive antenna
Short circuit a
mass,
short circuit
on nutrition,
open circuit o
high resistance
in the bus circuit
CAN to media
speed
ACTION:
Consult the wiring diagrams and check
the possible presence of a short circuit a
mass, of a short circuit on
power supply, an open circuit or
a high resistance in the bus circuit
LIN of the immobilizer antenna unit
Consult the wiring diagrams and check
the possible presence of an open circuit
or of a high resistance in the circuits of
power supply and ground of the module
vehicle without a key
Consult the wiring diagrams and
check for the presence of a
open circuit or a resistance
high in the power circuits e
mass of the RF receiver
Using the diagnostic system
approved by the manufacturer, check the
vehicle keyless module for
verify the presence of DTC
related and consult the relevant index
DTC
Consult the wiring diagrams and check
the possible presence of a short circuit a
mass, of a short circuit on
power supply, an open circuit or
a high resistance in the circuits
of the passive antenna
Using the diagnostic system
approved by the manufacturer, perform one
integrity test of the CAN network.
Consult the wiring diagrams and check
the possible presence of a short circuit a
mass, on power supply, open circuit
or high resistance in the CAN bus circuit
at medium speedDiscovery 5 tdv6 HSE Corris Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition IID Pro MV License
30th Sep 2018 11:07 pm
1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 136
Thanks!
Yes, IID confirms that two keys are registered, but none of them are detected.
When trying to relearn one of them, it comes up with faultcode E7 in the IID tool
When checking ECU info the KVM module shows up with data, does this mean it's "online" and responding to requests or is this data held somewhere else?
I'll try to measure antennas for shorts etc next, but was a bit confused by wiring diagram, since there seems to be two versions of KVM, one for those with keyless entry (with an extra connector) and one like mine without.
I have the wiring diagrams and workshop manual, but are lacking pinout detail on the connectors, does this information exist somewhere?
2nd Oct 2018 8:09 pm
dgardel
Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: Greater Venice
Posts: 2025
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 136
Thanks a lot!
7th Oct 2018 9:48 pm
dgardel
Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: Greater Venice
Posts: 2025
keep us informedDiscovery 5 tdv6 HSE Corris Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition IID Pro MV License
7th Oct 2018 10:18 pm
1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 136
Will do.
Been getting good support from GAP but still no joy.
Found the loadspace antennas had been soaked since the wife spilled a lot of water back there, could have caused the initial problem? Now after an attempted and failed reflash the KVM is "offline" so I've ordered a new module. All other wiring etc checks out just fine.
8th Oct 2018 1:36 pm
1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 136
I've now got a new KVM module but have not found any way to program/configure it.
IID is not supporting this according to GAP. Local Indie with SDD says they don't have access to the keys and alarm areas, need LR security clearance first.
Checked main dealer here, but it's the usual, more than a month's queue and I'm not comfortable leaving it there for them to work on.
So what other options are there to program a new KVM module? Nanocom? SDD clone?
18th Oct 2018 8:40 pm
PeterTh
Member Since: 06 Sep 2013
Location: Alunda
Posts: 330
Hi Thomas,
I have a Nanocom unlocked for D4 close to you. I have asked the Blackbox-people if it can be used for configuring the new KVM module. I get back to you with their answer.
//Peter2011 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 S Automatic
1999 Discovery 2 V8 ES Automatic
Earlier
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Automatic
1996 Discovery 300 Tdi ES Automatic
1975 Series 3 2.25 diesel
Nanocom Evolution for D2 V8, D3 and D4
Working kelpies for working the sheep
22nd Oct 2018 9:37 am
PeterTh
Member Since: 06 Sep 2013
Location: Alunda
Posts: 330
Answer from BBS:
"Hello, only keylearn is supported for the KVM module, when you replace there is a security sync needed which you should do at the dealer.
Regards,
Alex"
So Nanocom can not configure a new KVM.
Sorry,
Peter2011 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 S Automatic
1999 Discovery 2 V8 ES Automatic
Earlier
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Automatic
1996 Discovery 300 Tdi ES Automatic
1975 Series 3 2.25 diesel
Engine can be started if the fob is pressed up to the steering column as described in user manual
Maybe someone will shoot me down on this but surely the above puts the fault as being the key-fob not transmitting properly ?
If you get an after-market key-fob then put old KVM unit back, maybe it will allow you to pair the new key ?.
Dean
====================================
2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms
23rd Oct 2018 11:02 am
1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 136
PeterTh wrote:
Answer from BBS:
"Hello, only keylearn is supported for the KVM module, when you replace there is a security sync needed which you should do at the dealer.
Regards,
Alex"
So Nanocom can not configure a new KVM.
Sorry,
Peter
Thanks for checking Nanocom ability Peter, appreciated!
23rd Oct 2018 7:19 pm
1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 136
Re: Smart keys stopped working completely
Hardware17 wrote:
1784 wrote:
Engine can be started if the fob is pressed up to the steering column as described in user manual
Maybe someone will shoot me down on this but surely the above puts the fault as being the key-fob not transmitting properly ?
If you get an after-market key-fob then put old KVM unit back, maybe it will allow you to pair the new key ?
Problem is that both original fob's stopped working at the same time, my thinking is that it's not very likely so rather thinking it's the other end of the "circuit"?
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... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
