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DavidK
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 37
  
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| Steel rims and Cooper STT usage on a long trip |
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Just got back from a jaunt through an extensive section of outback Australia with new 17" Dynamic steel rims and new Cooper STT tyres (245/70 R17).
In total the trip was 7,200 km, with approx 5,500 km on pure dirt tracks (sandy tracks, very rocky tracks, deep mud for a few stream crossings, and hard packed dirt tracks...and everything in-between) - all of this was travelled at speed.
The steel rims were fine, and the Cooper tyres got me there and back without a flat (over some very rocky country at a good rate of knots)...this alone was a major reason for why I chose these tyres, and from this point they did not let me down.
What was of a concern though were the rear tyres, which at 3/4 way through the trip showed extensive stone chipping and cracking on the lugs (on both rear tyres)....the rear tyres really looked like they had copped a beating (and this on brand new tyres with 4-5,000 km on them). The front tyres were almost in show room condition still. As we were staying in pubs and the odd motel along the way I did not require excessive equipment which would have increased the weight on the back, besides two spare wheels and 80 litres of diesel there was no excessive weight in the back....beats me.
The Cooper STT tyres while bullet proof did not handle/track sandy sections well (the Cooper website did say 80% mud + dirt, and 20% road + sand). But if the tyres handled sand as well as they handled the road I would have been happy.
Funny thing about sand/bulldust in the outback, for when it rains (quite a rare thing) it turns to mud and you suddenly need mud tyres. This happened on the way back and having mud tyres on got me out of the odd pickle. 
I found the louder noise of the new STT tyres soon faded around 400km of usage and now do not notice any tyre whine...except a slight whine still at 80km/h. Also had a roo jump out on me at night while I was on a tar section and the STT tyres held well in the braking department (this part suprised me)....I really stomped on the brakes.
regards,
David MY05 TDV6 S - manual, King springs lift, General Grabber AT
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 14th Oct 2007 11:40 am |
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Rob Bruce
Member Since: 18 Jun 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 687
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David,
My Stts chip on the rear in similer conditions to yours, also the fronts wear a little more but no chiping, so each time I put them on I rotate them front to back.
This last trip all three vechles had Coopers on and not one flat, We gave them a floging over 5200 km and we all were praising the Coopers 
I have a feeling the rear chipping has more to do with the D3 than the tires.
Rob
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| 16th Oct 2007 8:05 am |
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DavidK
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 37
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Rob
Interesting to hear that....I tend to agree, seems to be something associated with the D3 (am wondering if there actually needs to be more weight in the back?).
Good to see you gave the STTs a floging 
regards,
David MY05 TDV6 S - manual, King springs lift, General Grabber AT
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| 16th Oct 2007 8:17 am |
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Sam131fr
Member Since: 22 Aug 2005
Location: Chaintreaux 77
Posts: 51
 
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Hi David,
you say you have steel rim can you say where you got them ?
By th way, could you tell me the trademark under witch i should be able to buy them ?
I'm very interrested in those, as i'd like to have some for offroading...with cooper STT...
best regards,
Sam 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto - 7 seat - Bonati Grey - Alpaca leather
Last edited by Sam131fr on 16th Oct 2007 10:00 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 16th Oct 2007 9:09 am |
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Rob Bruce
Member Since: 18 Jun 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 687
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David,
Dont know, I have alwayse tended to try and get weight forward to get it more evenly distrubuted and even then I feel it may be rear heavy. Some one with more knolege may have some ideas. Could it be something to do with the way the centre diff distrabutes torque to the front and rear as it sees fit and making the rear do more work ? Part of DSC workings ?
Rob
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| 16th Oct 2007 9:17 am |
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Sam131fr
Member Since: 22 Aug 2005
Location: Chaintreaux 77
Posts: 51
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Thanks a lot Catweasel !
Wonderfull !
Sam 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto - 7 seat - Bonati Grey - Alpaca leather
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| 16th Oct 2007 10:06 am |
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DavidK
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 37
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Rob,
interesting you mention the DSC....
After I noticed the state of the back tyres during the trip I went out of my way to disable the DSC while still on the dirt, but the tracks from that point on were a lot smoother with much less rocks, with most of the harder rocky tracks completed...and a comparison was not possible.
I was able though to get a good distance on dirt with the DSC disabled and I will now no longer run the D3 on dirt with the DSC enabled, as the behaviour of the car did change for the better (response mostly). From what I noticed the DSC light kicks in when there is a 'larger' engagement of the DSC, but I did find that the DSC was kicking in frequently to peg back the engine response etc without illuminating the DSC light....and would not be suprised if it was doing some funny business with torque split as well.
Sam131fr...I paid $120 Aus for the steel rims...no problems with them, they actually looked a lot better than I expected (I should get around to posting some pics).
David MY05 TDV6 S - manual, King springs lift, General Grabber AT
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| 17th Oct 2007 12:32 am |
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Desert Traveller
Member Since: 06 Aug 2006
Location: The Gabba - QLD
Posts: 420
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The Coopers are reknown for chipping, nothing to do with the D3. That is why they developed the ST-C (softer rubber less mileage). The chipping will occur with any hard rubber on gravel roads and tracks. Not limited to Coopers. This issue has been raised in other on-line forums. 06 TDV6 SE with many LR and after-market extras. Used only on weekends and trips out west.
Audi TT Roadster (Daily and around town drive)
VW Eos TDI For Sale
Previously 01 TD5 and 94 TDI
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| 17th Oct 2007 2:15 am |
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DavidK
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 37
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Desert Traveller,
I only recently got the Cooper STT tyres and they have the updated tyre compound with Cooper's 'Armor-Tek3' and improved stone chipping resistance....
Blurb from Coopers website...
"CUT, CHIP AND TEAR RESISTANT TREAD COMPOUND
The new STT has a specially developed tread compound that helps resist the cutting, tearing and chunking commonly found in extended outback use.
Australia played a pivotal role in the development of the new STT tread compound. Cooper analysed the results of a prototype set of STT's that were especially sent to Australia and were tested in an outback trip across Australia and back. Cooper also analysed feedback on the Cooper ST-C cut and chip compound tyre that was specially developed to achieve greater mileage on Australia's coarse rocky roads to develop the compound for the new STT."
If the front tyres were chipped as well I could understand that it was a stone chipping issue with the tyres (did not have one identifiable stone chip on the lugs at the front, the back is being ripped up), the difference between the front and back is substantial for new tyres.
David MY05 TDV6 S - manual, King springs lift, General Grabber AT
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| 17th Oct 2007 2:29 am |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
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I was talking to the bloke from coopers head office
before i bought my Mickey Thompsons (they sell both) and he said the chipping occurrs
when small stones get caught in the water cuts (sipe lines) on the tread
He said something about one of the coopers not having as many
sipe lines therefore making it more resistant to chipping
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| 17th Oct 2007 2:35 am |
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SKP
Member Since: 07 Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 219
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DavidK, I put Cooper 265/60 x 18 HTPlus on for my trip to the Kimberley in June (up the Tanami from Melbourne and along The Gibb). My fronts were fine, but the rears were really chopped around. 
I have been told that the front tyres flick the stones up into the rear tyres, which causes the damage.
Certainly caused a bit of damage to my rear door plastic moldings  (I was really moving on the dirt)
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| 20th Oct 2007 7:02 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
 
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SKP
I have the same tyres. Do you have front mud guards? Would they help? “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 20th Oct 2007 9:21 am |
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Haggis
Member Since: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 126
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All,
My experience with Discoverys and any brand tyre in these conditions is the rears take a beating. You can reduce the chipping with lower tyre pressures, but then you may need to also reduce speed.
I currently have a set of six Cooper STT in 245/70R17. I bought them because the Cooper ST-C didn't yet come in that size, and the STT (Armour-Tek3) is supposed to be the same compound. At the time no other recognised offroad/all terrain tyre was available in this size.
I have just finished another trip with these tyres and a mate in a D2 with BF Goodrich All Terrain T/As. His rears were also more chipped/worn than the fronts. My old D1s (both of them) did the same no matter what tyres were fitted. Strangely none of the Toyota's I ever owned did this. This latest trip was almost all in outback SA and west of the Stuart Highway.
For the record: Only five of the six original Cooper STTs survive. I damaged the sidewall of one in the Victorian High Country last April (after the fires), and it survived another ~5000kms or so on the left rear (the worst position for a tyre) finally giving way with a thumb sized hole in the sidewall at ~70km/h on the way to Lake Eyre from William Creek (Yuppy 4WDing!). The rest of them have now done >12000kms and all of it on trips (so loaded and aside from 'transport' stages on tracks/gravel/offroad). Those that have spent most time on the rear have worn about 4mm off the tread, the front is about 3mm worn. Those on the rear look worse in terms of cuts etc. I cycle six tyres through front, then rear, then spare, then back to front, etc, always on the same side (same rotation) and before every long trip (I use road tyres between trips/outings). Managing tyre pressures is very important, don't run them too high offroad or too low on road. Flies and heat can be discouraging, but don't be slack. At this rate they might make 3 years (3 annual outback trips and whatever else I can squeeze in), but more likely 2 since you wouldn't take almost worn out tyres on a long trip would you.....
Would I buy more Coopers? - yep.
Are they significantly better than BF Goodrich All Terrains? - not really, I would of gone for these again but the size I wanted wasn't available.
Finally a word on sand. They aren't the best option for sand because they need very low pressures to 'bag' and they tend to dig rather than float. At one point on soft dry sand I was running the fronts as low as ~9lb/in2, and the rears at ~11lb/in2 (speed management becomes very important when turning). In my view they are also a little too narrow (but wider tyres are too tall). Having said that the rest of the traction aids in the D3 ensures you keep up and often end up in the lead.....
Hope this helps
Regards
Haggis D3 (06) SE TDV6, Rear Locker, Rear Air, ARB bar w/winch, Safari Snorkel, 110l aux fuel tank, Kaymar rear bar (twin wheel carrier), Black Widow rear storage system, Rhino rack, GME UHF, Codan HF, IPF HID lights, CSA Explorer 17" w/BFG Mud Terrain KM2 - see Australian 4WD Monthly #103
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| 21st Oct 2007 3:56 am |
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PSC
Member Since: 01 May 2006
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 255
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Haggis wrote:Strangely none of the Toyota's I ever owned did this.
Were the Toyota's permanent 4WD ?
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| 21st Oct 2007 7:07 am |
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