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Renton
Member Since: 13 Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 1718
 
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| Suspension - Three parts gone bust? NOW 4, CAN BUS?? |
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Stealer diagnosed a faulty compressor. So I orderded one from TLO and replaced it. Unfortunately that didn't got it working. Instead only the back raised to off-road givinf the D3 that nice torpedo look. Car was booked at an independent for further diagnostics. Compressor wansn't given any faults any more nut now the rear valve gave a fault. Part wasn't in stock so I drove to another dealer to pick it up. Part was being replaced and........
centervalve/pressure sensor give a fault reading. Being replaced tomorrow.
Am I just that unlucky??  CLUB ILLEGAL CAR WASHERS
Last edited by Renton on 16th Apr 2010 3:56 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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 15th Apr 2010 3:46 pm |
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bigdave
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Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 9868
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ave you run over a black cat???
Your grille aint turned up today either!!
Not your day my firmnd!!
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| 15th Apr 2010 4:14 pm |
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SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1144
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Has anyone tested any of these components, or are they just bolting new bits on because of the fault codes?
Regards
Steve
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| 15th Apr 2010 4:31 pm |
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Renton
Member Since: 13 Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 1718
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Just bolting it on. Most dealers/independents don't have the equipment to test single parts. CLUB ILLEGAL CAR WASHERS
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| 15th Apr 2010 5:20 pm |
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SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1144
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What I really meant was, a fault code suggests there is a fault in that area/circuit. There can be many reasons why a code is set.
For example I have had many a code for the pressure sensor when it's the wiring to it.
This can be checked out by looking at the live data on IDS/SDD seeing if the pressure figure is somewhere near correct, or static, or obviously wrong, if nothing is wrong there then a multimeter can check the supply & return from the sensor etc.
It's just I see so many vehicles in with parts thrown at them, which they don't require & haven't fixed them, because the fault codes suggests a fault in that area, & the repairer lacks the knowledge to test anything.
Regards
Steve
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| 15th Apr 2010 5:32 pm |
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Renton
Member Since: 13 Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 1718
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SteveNorman wrote:What I really meant was, a fault code suggests there is a fault in that area/circuit. There can be many reasons why a code is set.
For example I have had many a code for the pressure sensor when it's the wiring to it.
This can be checked out by looking at the live data on IDS/SDD seeing if the pressure figure is somewhere near correct, or static, or obviously wrong, if nothing is wrong there then a multimeter can check the supply & return from the sensor etc.
It's just I see so many vehicles in with parts thrown at them, which they don't require & haven't fixed them, because the fault codes suggests a fault in that area, & the repairer lacks the knowledge to test anything.
Regards
Steve
I see what you mean. On other occassions my regular dealer was one ot those. I now turned to an independent who came recommended but I am afraid he fits the same category. I stood by his side and the only thing he did was reading the fault code on his system and advised to change the concerning part. Not looking at any wiring at all.
This is frustrating. I am prety sure that when he replaces the other valve tomorrow it still won't be solved. CLUB ILLEGAL CAR WASHERS
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| 15th Apr 2010 7:42 pm |
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SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1144
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I think a lot of indepenents are finding this a steep learning curve (as are dealers). The crux of repairing these is understanding how the system works. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the time renewing parts can be a quick fix, especially if cheap, like height sensors, but I can see there are going to be a lot of these earlier models with problems, & not many people to repair them.
Regards
Steve
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| 15th Apr 2010 10:22 pm |
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Renton
Member Since: 13 Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 1718
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Second valve has been replaced. Guess what, now a wiring fault has come up. They tell me it's the CAN bus. Has the wiring of the CAN bus anything to do with the suspension system? CLUB ILLEGAL CAR WASHERS
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| 16th Apr 2010 3:58 pm |
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SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1144
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So did they not look at the list of fault codes in the first place?
Do you really think it's likely all these things have failed one after the other, or do you think maybe they haven't found the problem yet?
Regards
Steve
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| 16th Apr 2010 5:25 pm |
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BBS SPY
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Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
 
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Yes, but only in so far as it connects the EAS ECU to the vehicles other systems, so it can exchange data with them.
The CAN bus is also used for diagnostic access to the ECU, in order to read and clear faults etc, which might sound odd that you are using the bus to connect to the ECU that is saying the bus if faulty. However the bus is fault tolerant to some degree, so it can have real faults that still allow access and it can have faults that cause significant enough data losses to be noticed during use that don't affect diagnostic comms.
However, there is generally so much traffic on the bus at such a high speed and the ECU's so inter related and inter dependant, that its seems the vehicle environment causes most ECU's to continually log some faults related to CAN bus comms. Ie after they are cleared they always re appear. These faults are however of a low priority and intermittant nature and do not affect the normal running of a system. The exact faults that are stored and in which ECU's, varies from vehicle to vehicle, perhaps due to loom routing or build tolerances. Although they can be generalised and i have no doubt that experienced dealer technicians or indies get to know from experience which faults can most likely be ignored.
Everyone who buys our diagnostic equipment soon discovers this about their own vehicles and we encourage them to use the equipment to learn what faults are usually present in their vehicles and so can be ignored. This then allows them to quickly identify anything new and worthy of note.
For example on my own D3, i always have 3 CAN bus comms fault codes stored in my EAS. A month or so ago i had a system malfunction in the field and used my FCR to read 4 faults. As it happens the new one was only due to a glitch rather than a real fault and a fault clear got the EAS back on line. But it could have easily been a sensor or valve that i needed to replace / get replaced like you.
Hopefully having explained this situation to you, you can now see my point in saying that if i had experienced a fault that was fixed and then a week later, i went to someone who was a bit wet behind the ears, and not as familiar with this situation or my vehicle as i am, having read the 3 CAN bus comms faults he might imagine there was a real CAN bus fault when there is not.
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| 16th Apr 2010 6:10 pm |
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Q86ARR
Member Since: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Jersey
Posts: 378
 
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If your D3 is pre 7A I would have a look at the connectors behind the NSF wheel arch liner. 3 connectors at the rear of the wheel, common place for corroded wires.
Also check the 2 big connectors in the NSR wheel arch, easy to get to with spare wheel out. Another common place for corroded wires on any age D3.
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| 16th Apr 2010 6:15 pm |
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Renton
Member Since: 13 Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 1718
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Steve: Yes, they did look at the fault codes. First it said the the compressor had a defect. Replaced that, fault gone but a new fault saying rear valve defect. Replaced that, fault gone, new fault appeared saying center valve/pressure sensor defect. Replaced that, fault message gone but new fault, wiring problem........
I find it very doubtfull that all these parts failed/broke down after another. I get a strong feeling that I flushed 1K and the fault is caused by a broken wire/connector which still needs to be diagnosed.
But what are my options? Can't drive on like this and a trip to the dealer costs me an enormous amount of time.
Colin: Thanks for explaining the CAN bus. Makes perfect sense. Owning a Faultmate is getting more interesting by the day. The independent I am with now is very experienced but admitted yesterday that the number of suspension failures he worked on was limited and mostly a straight fix. So probably I am paying now for his education of this system.
Q86ARR: I did have a look at the connectors and wires in the NSF wheel arch lining. I could only do a visual check and they looked ok and not corroded.
Hypothetical question: could a failure in the wiring cause the compressor and valves to give up? That's what the independent suggested. CLUB ILLEGAL CAR WASHERS
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| 16th Apr 2010 11:09 pm |
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SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1144
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Most wiring faults I have come across don't damage the components, but obviously do flag a code for that component, thus if a wire was poor or broken in the front LH wheel arch, it could display a fault for pressure sensor for example. When the wiring is fixed the code doesn't come back.
What are the fault codes you have had?
Regards
Steve
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| 17th Apr 2010 6:33 am |
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SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1144
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For the wheel arch wiring prolems have a look at:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic47222-15.html
Although it's discussing a sensor problem the compressor & associated wiring also is running through there.
Most CAN bus faults are timing issues, i.e. one ecu wants to talk to another, but it won't respond, but as there are many many messages flying round all the time, most are flagged as non communication... let me know what codes you have & I'll try to help.
HTH
Regards
Steve
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| 17th Apr 2010 6:40 am |
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Renton
Member Since: 13 Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 1718
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Thanks Steve. Unfortunately the car is at the workshop so I have no clue about the fault codes.
The only thing I find unlogical is why the fault codes are cleared once the part is replaced. If the parts were not broken but were replaced anyway shouldn't that same fault appear again?
I find it highly unlikely that all these parts are broken but the fault disappearing once replaced suggests it was indeed broken.
What do you make of that? CLUB ILLEGAL CAR WASHERS
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| 17th Apr 2010 9:15 am |
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