DISCO4.COM - View topic - Roof Rail Failure on D3 SE

al cope

Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 5074

2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 XS Auto Lugano Teal

I know I'm pitching in quite late on this one, but for the captive nut to be pushed down off the underside of the roof panel, all the down force must have been via the bolt, and that to me means it wasnt tight (as if it was, the nut would be compressing the roof panel between the nut and the rack the other side. Or has it cracked the roof panel all round the nut? Am I missing something??

Al TDV6 XS Auto - Lugano Teal with Almond Leather, 20" Stormers, Shiny Tailpipes, DVD/TV, BAS Electrickery - and obligatory D3 sticker
Old - TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony, 20" Stormers, satnav & DVD

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Thu Aug 26 2010 4:37pm

MELISCAT

Member Since: 17 Dec 2009
Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire
Posts: 64

2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zermatt Silver

whydahdvr wrote:
The load numbers I've seen for the LR cross bars and roof rack are 158 lbs. I'm rusty on my kg conversion but that does seem light, but enough for a load of plywood sheets or luggage. I would think that depending on the roof rack and framing of it, the number of connection points to distribute the load weight, you could increase that some.

158 lbs is about 71kg Mike

Thu Aug 26 2010 5:00pm

MELISCAT

Member Since: 17 Dec 2009
Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire
Posts: 64

al cope wrote:
I know I'm pitching in quite late on this one, but for the captive nut to be pushed down off the underside of the roof panel, all the down force must have been via the bolt, and that to me means it wasnt tight (as if it was, the nut would be compressing the roof panel between the nut and the rack the other side. Or has it cracked the roof panel all round the nut? Am I missing something??

Al

The roofs outer skin was not damaged, only the inner sections to which the captive nut was atached. Mike

Thu Aug 26 2010 5:02pm

MELISCAT

Member Since: 17 Dec 2009
Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire
Posts: 64

2DISCO3ORNOT wrote:
Was about to buy two roof boxes to load up, so am watching this with disbelief, 50kgs offroad???? That doesnt even cover my 4 bikes going on holiday

Yes I kow, I have been off roading with my rack and tent for 18 months and have covered over 20,000 miles off-road with it, before the current problem. I have already started looking at a Td5 Defender for my more serious trips as from past experience the full length gutter rails on the Defender are more than capable of taking the load (even if Land Rover don't think so). I wish I had never sold my beloved 2002 Defender 90 Tombraider, she may have been noisey and uncomfortable but she was a lot more reliable.

Mike

Thu Aug 26 2010 5:08pm

MELISCAT

Member Since: 17 Dec 2009
Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire
Posts: 64

whydahdvr wrote:
The load numbers I've seen for the LR cross bars and roof rack are 158 lbs. I'm rusty on my kg conversion but that does seem light, but enough for a load of plywood sheets or luggage. I would think that depending on the roof rack and framing of it, the number of connection points to distribute the load weight, you could increase that some.

According to LandRover you will be exceeding the roof loading of the D3 regardless of what rack you fit, it will invalidate your warranty if you exceed the roof loading.
I was at Stoneleigh Land Rover Max show this weekend and the question of Insurance implications came up if exceeding the manufacturers roof loadings - an even darker an area that I don't want go down and had not realy considered till the question was poised! Mike

Mon Aug 30 2010 5:57pm

MELISCAT

Member Since: 17 Dec 2009
Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire
Posts: 64

Another reply from Land Rover - they have fired back the website disclaimer for the discrepancy of the weight loadings of the luggage rack, I quote "...we do not represent or warrant the accuracy or completeness of information on this site.." so they are quite happy to mislead the buying public. They have however passed the issue onto the Product and Marketing Team

what good that will do....I wait to see.

They are unable to find any reference to the vehicles roof loading in the owners manual, so how are we to find out this information. I suppose we could ask, but then they don't want us to know how C

the loading is.

I think I will send them one more letter, then try one of the magazines to get this whole issue of vehicle roof loadings raised. Mike

Thu Sep 02 2010 6:33pm

MELISCAT

Member Since: 17 Dec 2009
Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire
Posts: 64

lee157 wrote:
Hi Maliscat,
I've been on my hols for a few weeks, and have just read all the posts that have risen since it posted the pic on the first page.
I'm not aware that my D3 is a special one off or that it had any re-enforcement done to the roof supports areas.

I'll pm you my vin number to see it helps the process with LR.

Lee

Hi Lee Land Rover will not supply me with the build details on your D3 as I am not the owner..Data Protection Act... so if you want to know you will have to find out from them if your load plates were fitted at manufacture. Mike

Thu Sep 02 2010 6:39pm

catweasel

Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4772

MELISCAT wrote:
They are unable to find any reference to the vehicles roof loading in the owners manual, so how are we to find out this information.

read the manual
Extract from the easy to obtain owners manual

Fri Sep 03 2010 3:36pm

MELISCAT

Member Since: 17 Dec 2009
Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire
Posts: 64

Roof Load is not on the specification list (page 269 - 274) in the official owners manual supplied with the vehicle, all the other information is as stated in your page link. The owners manual I have is part no LRL 10 02 53 802 and several of my friends have been through it and are unable, like Land Rover to find the information.
Page 275 in my manual is the first page of Type approval, what year model D3 is yours and what is the part number of your owners manual? Mike

Fri Sep 03 2010 6:57pm

caverD3

Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5287

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zambezi Silver

Have LR answered the question about the fixings? I think that is where the problem is. Difficulty is getting LR to admit a build failure. You will need some proof.
What details of build do you need as I can ask the dealer on Monday for mine as I have the same fixings as Lee.

I still think the guys following theis thread should look at theirs and if they are all the same you have sometng to throw at LR.

"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both- and deserve neither"
Thomas Jefferson.

TDV6: Adaptive Headlights, Electronic Rear Diff, ARB Bar, Blaupunkt Speakers, JVC Powered Subwoofer, Removable Snorkel, Mitchell Bros Tow Hitch, Pioneer After Market Head Unit, Zenarc Touch Screen, In Car Sub-notebook, GPS Anntenna, Steering Wheel Control Adaptor, Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.

Sat Sep 04 2010 3:06am

MELISCAT

Member Since: 17 Dec 2009
Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire
Posts: 64

Unnecessary quote removed

They are unable to furnish the information on the build details of Lee's vehicle as they would be breaking the data protection act. If you can find out from your dealer that would be great. The only comment their engineers have made is that the roof loading would still be 75kg/50kg in any case as they have not amended the roof load figures during the manufacture of the D3 regardless of any modifications. Mike

Sat Sep 04 2010 10:00am

caverD3

Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5287

I'll see what I can find out.

You are on a hiding to nothing talking about loading.
You need to get them to admit that the fixing was a manufacturing fault. They are using load rating to get out of the claim.
Especially with photos of the G4s you can argue you have a "reasonable expectation" (legal term) of the roof rails coping with the load you placed on yours. "reasonable expectation" is why they will pay for failures outside warranty. "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both- and deserve neither"
Thomas Jefferson.

TDV6: Adaptive Headlights, Electronic Rear Diff, ARB Bar, Blaupunkt Speakers, JVC Powered Subwoofer, Removable Snorkel, Mitchell Bros Tow Hitch, Pioneer After Market Head Unit, Zenarc Touch Screen, In Car Sub-notebook, GPS Anntenna, Steering Wheel Control Adaptor, Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.

Sun Sep 05 2010 3:36am

catweasel

Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4772

MELISCAT wrote:
what is the part number of your owners manual?

the info came from Land Rovers own website and has always been there and the info is still the same as it was 4 years ago. http://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/extfree2viewlrprod/index.jsp

caverD3 wrote:
You need to get them to admit that the fixing was a manufacturing fault

and what factual engineering evidence do you have to claim it is a manufacturing fault and not end user misuse or from a bolt that may have worked its way loose.

MELISCAT wrote:
Yes I kow, I have been off roading with my rack and tent for 18 months and have covered over 20,000 miles off-road with it

Sun Sep 05 2010 12:10pm

caverD3

Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5287

catweasel wrote:

caverD3 wrote:
You need to get them to admit that the fixing was a manufacturing fault
and what factual engineering evidence do you have to claim it is a manufacturing fault and not end user misuse or from a bolt that may have worked its way loose.

Because no one has said they have the same fixing as MELISCAT(nut only without spreader plate)
Never said I had any proof I just said I think it is what he will need to proove.

Have you checked what fixing you have CW?

IMHO his fixing is not fit for purpose so not surprised it cause the cracking. The fixing would create a point load leading to metal fatigue insteasd of it being spread out. "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both- and deserve neither"
Thomas Jefferson.

TDV6: Adaptive Headlights, Electronic Rear Diff, ARB Bar, Blaupunkt Speakers, JVC Powered Subwoofer, Removable Snorkel, Mitchell Bros Tow Hitch, Pioneer After Market Head Unit, Zenarc Touch Screen, In Car Sub-notebook, GPS Anntenna, Steering Wheel Control Adaptor, Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.

Sun Sep 05 2010 12:35pm

Baben
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Member Since: 15 Feb 2006
Location: Kyalami
Posts: 1944

A couple of us have asked the question, which has been ignored - how can a point load be created on the rail fixing bolt, unless the bolt is loose AND a load is applied directly to the bolt head?
Even if the fixing bolt is loose and there is a load on the rails, how can it possibly be forced downwards? The rail fixing bolts simpy hold the roof rails against the roof. They do not carry the load, which is spread along the length of the rail Unlock your 4x4 info, voice control, 3-flash indicators, sort out your leaning suspension, Bluetooth pairing, D3, D4 and RRS

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Sun Sep 05 2010 2:16pm