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robertofollia
Member Since: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Sometimes over here, and sometimes over there
Posts: 114
  
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| IMMINENT BUYING OF D3. Help from V8 owners wanted! |
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Hi all,
First let me say hello and congratulate you for this great forum
Being quite old to Land Rovers (everything started from a 1992 2,5 petrol-engined, leaf-sprung, LT-85 part-time 4wd Santana which I still own), then came my father's 1995 300Tdi RR Classic, used today as a family back up but in perfect shape, 2 years ago arrived a 1999 D2 V8 5-speeder, coiler but with ACE and in kent green (yes very rare) and a late model 2004 Td5 D2 (this one will be bidden farewell soon).
So yes, after visiting Val d'Isere and testing the RRSport (D3 was not available as it was fully booked) and sharing both the same platform, I began considering the buy of a D3 one of this year's most urgent to-do's.
And yes, the dealer valued my 2004 Td5 really well (well, only 25,000 kms, heavily rustproofed inside and out, and being fitted with cruise control and centre diff lock). Why do I sell it? Because the Td5 will never, ever, be as smooth and progressive as the 300Tdi was. Yes, it can be tuned. Yes, it can run really fast, BUT.... its usable power range goes from 2,000 to 3,000 rpm. Under that, there's nothing, and over that figure, not much.
So, there goes the million dollar question. A D3? Certainly. But which one?
Options considered:
1.-TdV6 coiler no terrain response, manual. Little electronics compared to other ones but don't like the manual gearbox feeling. I test drove a manual last week and it seemed low on power, and seemed it did not accelerate (but I was wrong, it does it so smoothly I can'teven feel it).
*Pros: Smooth engine, a dream to drive.
Simpler and less likely to leave stranded in the middle of a remote highway in a holiday, at night and raining.
*Cons: Lacking a proper centre diff lock, the traction control really struggles on snow, as no centre diff lock is available. Cruise control not fitted and impossible to ask for leather seats. Hasto be a special order as don't have any in stock
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2.-TdV6 Auto, air susp, HSE. The one offered by the dealer, 6 months old, cairns blue, beige leather. Ex demo. I have to test this one. Well, it was due for service today so the test will have to wait for tomorrow or next week.
*Pros: Much more comfortable, Autobox is really smoother, seems more powerful as always shifts at the best time, air susp a bonus and terrain response, when selecting "sand", as it allows a little wheespin, can be perfect for snow (after all, it was the setting used most of the time in Val d'Isere, and it was muddy).
*Cons: All those electronics, you know.
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3.- V8. I really like the V8 sound. Never test drove one. Only heard the 2006 RR3 4,4 V8 engine in a dealer and.. well, it's the engine I like.
*Pros: Same as TdV6 auto, with the added bonus that a petrol engine does not have an electronic turbocharger, does not have such a sophisticated emission control system, and many fewer things are likely to go wrong (no twin timing belts, no twin EGRs, no turbo, no injection pump...)
*Cons: Mpg (well I think it won't do less than my Santana or my D2 V8, my V8 has better mpg than my Santana), and finding one, too. I have only seen one in Madrid, and I've been told that there are some from as early as 2004 stored in dealers that have been unable to sell them.
Besides, it's an engine nearly unknown in Spain, so getting it serviced and parts for it can be a hassle.
When my V8 D2 radiator began leaking last year (at the same time the MAF sensor played up) I had to wait 3 weeks to get the parts.
My heart goes for the V8, my head for the TdV6.
But after reading so many posts about "power failure", reluctant turbos and so on, I am a bit confused. I do not travel long journeys each day or each week, but I do my mileage mostly at a time (when I went to Val d'Isere I did 2500 kms in just one weekend) and simply can't afford to break down in the middle of the road (my previous Landies failed, but always took me home, even with a broken injector pump in my 300Tdi, but I always got home). With such an electronics invasion, you can't be sure anymore. It stops working and there you are. Won't start, won't go until you renew the part, plug it to the T4 terminal and tell them "hey, wake up and go", and it does. But when it happens you're really far from a dealer.
or even worse, You get the fault, you take it to the delare and they can't find anything.
Mossy in this forum owns a V8.
Here it's impossible to book a test drive for the V8, simply because there aren't available! No one in stock in Land Rover Spain. No demo's, only the odd one stored in a dealer who-knows-where.
So I would kindly appreciate all comments and suggestions, especially from V8 owners. Specific faults, mpg and the usual niggles associated.
Sorry for such a long first post. And Thank you Regards, Robert
Only a closed filling station can prevent me from reaching my destination
1992 Santana 88"SWB petrol
1995 RRClassic 300Tdi
1999 D2 V8 manual coiler
2004 D2 Td5... SOLD!
2006 D3 V8 SE
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 Wed Aug 16 2006 7:04pm |
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Mossy
Member Since: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Hollyoaks, UK
Posts: 2549
 
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Hi Roberto, and welcome to the forum!!!
We can I start? In simple terms, you dont have to be mad to own a V8 Disco, but it helps. 
I cant really add anything to your pros and cons but here's a persepctive. Fault wise, I dont think my present D3 has had any more problems that ny other D3. All the usual niggles that have been dicussed are non-engine specific so it's pretty reliable and has never missed a beat. It is costly to run. A steady long journey will return 22mpg +, but hammer the bends and corners and drive and 9 mpg is the result.
It is quieter, smoother and and certainly delivers on the performance front...
But (and I'm sure nobody here's listening), having driven a TDV6, I was nothing but surprised. Yes it lacked the instand throttle response, and the sheer power of the V8, but in real-world situations, away from the standing starts and such, it's far closer than you might think. It;s a real peach of an engine and rewards you in your pocket.
I guess it all depends on what you want. And if I have my time again, the choice between the two would be far, far, far closer than I want to believe. 
So what would I choose?
Tune in next week folks, for the next exciting episode of.....
 D3 HSE V8...
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| Wed Aug 16 2006 8:15pm |
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nwoods
Member Since: 04 Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 558
  
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You mentioned snow a lot, but not off roading or what your street driving is like. Are you a frustrated Formula 1 driver like me, or are you constanly in danger of being rear ended by little old ladies catching up to you from behind?
From all that I've read, the chip'ed TDi is an excellent choice. LR has issued a number of software updates to improve the peformance, and TurboChip has a significant upgrade to take it the rest of the way to Fun. People report on this site up to 30mpg. Can't ignore that.
I get 12 - 15 MPG with the V8 petrol, and 14-18 MPG with the V-6 petrol (US market). I have a V6 in mine, but have put 1000 miles on the V8 recently. I LIKE the V8, but I am a chronic heavy foot driver. My V6 is perfectly adequate. it's not exicting, but not boring, and performs great off road. I think the V6 is better mated to the transmission than the V8.
My V6 LR3 (Discovery 3) is a coiler without Terrian Control. I have absolutely no electronics issues, but then, there is little to go wrong. This past few weeks I have been in a loaner V8 SE, and WOW. It is SOOoooo much more capable off road and soooooo much more comfortable to drive! The SE (and above) has MUCH better seats, and rides better on the road (firmer) and softer off road (more shock absorption and significantly more travel).
Another key aspect I think is that V6 is not available with the rear locking diff (at least, not in the US). After having climbed a STEEP hill with LARGE rocks to the point where I was SCARED to attempt it, the locker equiped SE just walked right up it without ever noticing that the driver was breathing hard. That rear locker works brilliantly. It's a $600 option in the US, and it's worth twice the price.
Another difference is that the SE I'm borrowing has a much better sound system. I still don't like the overall tone or brightness of the Harmon Kardon acoustics, but at least there is appreciable bass in this SE (where is the subwoofer anyway?)
So for your long trips, get the comfy seats, the better suspension, better audio and for snow and off road use, the rear locker is great. Build your ideal D3 around those options and you will be happy. then make sure it has the most current service patches and so forth!
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 2:47am |
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hvilorio
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Santo Domingo
Posts: 9
 
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I had a V8 Disco, but it was turning to be very expensive to run so I sold it and got me a TDV6 and couldn't be happier. In everyday driving you hardly notice the difference except when you have to go from a full stop and rush into a lane of fast moving vehicles, there is a small lag that the V8 didn't have. But the TDV6 is much more fuel efficient and with fuel prices going up almost every week I think the TDV6 is the smarter choice. 2010 D4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Zermatt Silver
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 5:22am |
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DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: Missing Boughrood :(
Posts: 10056
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nwoods wrote:where is the subwoofer anyway?
Its inside the bottom half of the rear hatch. iDiot Bater
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 6:36am |
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nwoods
Member Since: 04 Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 558
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Ah! I wondered, but it wasn't obvious, even with the music turned up. Very nicely done. Thanks for the info.
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 6:43am |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Sitting pensively in front of the mouse trap looking at the cheese
Posts: 18155
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nwoods wrote:Ah! I wondered, but it wasn't obvious, even with the music turned up. Very nicely done. Thanks for the info.
Great when you sit on the tailgate drinking yer beer with some thumping music on
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 9:29am |
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robertofollia
Member Since: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Sometimes over here, and sometimes over there
Posts: 114
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Hi all,
Thank you soo much for your kind replies. The problem is that now i want 2 D3, so with a V8 and TdV6 I can have the best of both worlds
As my driving styles goes I'm neither a frustrated F1 driver nor the lady-driver from Pasadena. The only thing I hate is getting the gas-pedal response I get from my Td5, which arrives always too late. Just like to go smoothly, and having a great respect for mechanics. If you don't give your Landy the attention it deserves, it just breaks down.
I don't offroad in a regular basis, but get plenty of it in winter and in gatherings such as the Italian National and the ones organised by the Spanish LR club. This year I was following a D3 with my old faithful Santana, and the D3 really climbs like a cat. The wheel aticulation just copied every pothole, every rock in the offroad section and it coped perfectly as if nothing happened.
The great day is today's afternoon. I will have as a loaner for the rest of the day the TdV6 auto. I will probably go for the TdV6 auto HSE as the dealer made me an indecent proposal (price-wise), an offer I could not refuse.
As far as the TdV6s go, maybe the manual has better acceleration and does more mpg, but the auto might be better for overtaking, and for getting momentum when going uphill, as the half a second used when changing gear just kills your advance.
Mossy, I heve never driven, or had even the chance to hear, the sound ofa D3V8. It must be the greatest Land Rover experience so far. Maybe in 2 years' time when I sell my D2V8 I can replace it with a D3 V8 as well
Nwoods, I took a look at your previous posts. Your D3 is a rare thing, keep it! As far as lifts go, there is a company from Oz that makes and sells lift conversions for D3 coilers. I saw one modified by OUTBACK IMPORT and a specialist workshop in Valence (France).
http://www.outback-import.com/
Sadly, it's still under construc tion
Your D3 in white with a 2"-3" inch lift, a specially dedicated bumper, a rear-door spare wheel carrier certainly looks the part. As soon as I find the workshop's card (have it somewhere at home, with all the documents from Val d'Isere), I'll open up a new thread and hang them up there so you can contact them for advice or to get the lifted springs.
Thank you all again and.. Watch this space! More news between tomorrow and next week Regards, Robert
Only a closed filling station can prevent me from reaching my destination
1992 Santana 88"SWB petrol
1995 RRClassic 300Tdi
1999 D2 V8 manual coiler
2004 D2 Td5... SOLD!
2006 D3 V8 SE
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 9:38am |
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nwoods
Member Since: 04 Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 558
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robertofollia wrote:
Your D3 in white with a 2"-3" inch lift, a specially dedicated bumper, a rear-door spare wheel carrier certainly looks the part. As soon as I find the workshop's card (have it somewhere at home, with all the documents from Val d'Isere), I'll open up a new thread and hang them up there so you can contact them for advice or to get the lifted springs.
That would be very cool. Looking forward to the contact info. 3" lift would be perfect!
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 9:48am |
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KL
Member Since: 16 Jun 2005
Location: Gilling, nr York
Posts: 694
 
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A couple of things to add.
1. You can add leather seats - the aftermarket price in UK is about £1,500 (approx €2,500).
2. A significant CON for the V8 will be resale value. Shocking here in the UK - perhaps not such an issue in Spain due to your low fuel prices?
3. You can get an auto on a base coil model, if you so wish.
4. If you are used to Santana and Defenders, then you'll not really need Terrain Response. Sure it's nice but if you know how to use low range (and air suspension, if you had it) then it's not exactly unmissable in my opinion Discovery 3 tdv6 7 seat Buckingham Blue
Five years on, and still love it.
Smart Roadster for commuting
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 10:36am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5287
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Sorry folks not from oz, Canadian in fact 
http://www.outbackimports.ca/
Why the hell are they using out Kangaroo?  "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both- and deserve neither"
Thomas Jefferson.
TDV6: Adaptive Headlights, Electronic Rear Diff, ARB Bar, Blaupunkt Speakers, JVC Powered Subwoofer, Removable Snorkel, Mitchell Bros Tow Hitch, Pioneer After Market Head Unit, Zenarc Touch Screen, In Car Sub-notebook, GPS Anntenna, Steering Wheel Control Adaptor, Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 10:42am |
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robertofollia
Member Since: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Sometimes over here, and sometimes over there
Posts: 114
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KL
Did not know leather seats are available as an option. Down here, if you want them, you have to go for the HSE or taking them to Trakkers or Nationwide Trim to be reupholstered. V8 is available from SE upwards, but not in S-spec.
Resale value of the V8 is simply non-existent in Spain. You can't sell it because there are no buyers interested. But I would bite the bullet and go for the V8, and maybe in the near future, if I sell my D2 V8, I might buy a D3 V8 as well.
I don't like the terrain response at all. I fitted centre-diff lock in the D2. But why would I get Terrain Response in the D3?
Simple, because the T.Response comes with auto-lock centre and -optionally- rear diffs. Without T. Response there is only Traction Control, which goes OK in most situations, but in snow or mud it struggles to cope, braking the wheel that slips and therefore losing all momentum, and getting stuck. With terrain response the dreaded Traction Control is still there but is less intrusive. The "sand" setting is best for slippery ground, as allows a little bit of wheelspin so you can maintain momentum, and locks the centre diff ´(it was the ost used setting in the muddy ground of Val d'Isere's test area)
Hope the folks from Outback import (the aussie ones) come with a manually lockable centre diff in the near future. At present they are developing a reinforced air compressor for the suspension.
Bowler offroad is preparing a new version, the Straycat, which uses the D3/RRSport powertrain and transmission and will look like a competition RRSport on steroids. As traction control is not allowed in competition I guess we'll be seeing kinda difflock, sooner or later. Hope so! Regards, Robert
Only a closed filling station can prevent me from reaching my destination
1992 Santana 88"SWB petrol
1995 RRClassic 300Tdi
1999 D2 V8 manual coiler
2004 D2 Td5... SOLD!
2006 D3 V8 SE
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 1:35pm |
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Mossy
Member Since: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Hollyoaks, UK
Posts: 2549
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robertofollia wrote:Mossy, I heve never driven, or had even the chance to hear, the sound ofa D3V8. It must be the greatest Land Rover experience so far. Maybe in 2 years' time when I sell my D2V8 I can replace it with a D3 V8 as well
Oh all the comments I get about my D3, usually the first is "that's sounds great". And if you ever accelerate hard, innocent bystanders do turn and look either admiringly or probably in scorn.
But as you know, all this comes at a cost and mainly at the fuel pump. I didnt buy the car with residuals in mind, as my approach is that I would be compromising my choice of vehicle... any vehicle. Obviously the more I can get back when I sell the better, but I was "buyer aware" and will cry in the arms of my bank manager no doubt.
If I was sensible I would buy TDV6. I have driven and owned many Td5's and to compare with the TDV6 would be silly; the TDV6 is simply in a league of its own altogether and once up and running as smooth as a baby's
Let us know what you decide.
D3 HSE V8...
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 2:11pm |
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nwoods
Member Since: 04 Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 558
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robertofollia wrote:
Bowler offroad is preparing a new version, the Straycat, which uses the D3/RRSport powertrain and transmission and will look like a competition RRSport on steroids...
I've been in touch with Bowler, and they admited that there are few if any parts from the RRS/D3 remaining in their vehicle. It resembles the RRS in vague shape only. I have yet to figure out why Land Rover sponsors them. They really aren't Land Rovers anymore.
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 2:47pm |
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Gurvan
Member Since: 02 Jan 2005
Location: France : in the middle of it !
Posts: 1086
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I think that the guy in Valence France you are telling us about is this one : www.technicauto.fr
Sadly, on his web-site, there are no longer any pictures of that very nice prepared DIII that was showed in some French LR magazine like UNIVERS LAND or LAND MAG... 
My advice would be a fully equipped TDV6 HSE... 35.000km in mine and except for some major problems with the battery which have been fully solved right now (And were in part due to very bad electrical skills from some LR Dealer...) I am not regretting it for one minute ! My wife is even so hooked up that she is now looking at a Defender ! 
As for the power, the TDV6, even standard, is no such a slouch... I really appreciate it and sometimes, I do indulge myself against unsuspecting drivers at the red lights... But hey, it's fun !
EDIT : correction... Just follow the link at the bottom left of the first page... The one that says PREPARATION.. Enjoy ! Even though it is in French... Georgia On My Mind...
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| Thu Aug 17 2006 5:24pm |
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