ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 890
  
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kingofthesparks wrote:Now do in need to send my docs off or not ? Anyone 
Let's keep this going!!
The answer is no.
There are 2 separate pieces of legislation:
1) Registration Plate Suppliers Regs under Vehicles (Crime) Act 2001
2) Display of registration marks regs
If you buy plates for use on the road then the supplier must comply with the document bit of 1 above. If they do not ask for them THEY and not YOU are committing an offence.
If those plates meet the regs under 2 (BS, font, spacing, markings etc) and you use them on the road then the plates are entirely legal as the plates only have to meet those regs. The fact that documents were not shown is not a requirement of their use on a public road.
So, to summarise, if you buy plates that comply with the Display Regs and you do not show your documents, you and your plates are entirely legal. You have committed no offence. The supplier of the plates may however have comitted an offence under the Supplier Regs. It will be for a court to decide whether putting the terms "not for road use" or whatever whilst supplying display compliant plates is legal or a dodge around the regs. That however is not your problem.
As for any particular company, unless someone gets very bored and decides to crackdown on this dodge, it will carry on as the CPS are unlikely to run with such a tenuous case. However if the supplier were perceived to be in cahoots with criminal lowlife they may get a 6am knock on the door (the type that removes the door from its hinges!) as part of some wider investigation. Tony
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 Sat Jan 21 2012 4:06pm |
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Bodsy
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 4:22pm |
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ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 890
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They won't put Flashplates out of business as numberplate fixed penalties are the easiest going and rarely if ever go to court, and as long as Flash offer non-road plates and wallies keep putting them on their cars everyone's happy (exceot VOSA  )! 
Plus if they find villains using them they'll just raid them, confiscate all their records and start turning over everyone who's ever bought a plate from them. Easiest way is just to put all the numberplates sold onto the ANPR database to be stopped with extreme prejudice 
To conclude, not showing your V5 when buying numberplates does not qualify you as a badass m****rf****r. Not round here anyway. Tony
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 4:46pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 27005
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At last.... some recognition that this company is not acting in a proper manner 
So for further clarity RP ...... the supplier is stating that the 'legal' plates are not for use on the road and should be used as show plates only ...where does that leave everyone ? Existential Phenomenologist.
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 5:04pm |
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DSL
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Heading here ^^^^ :)
Posts: 24237
 
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DG wrote: ...where does that leave everyone ?
Back at square one?? 
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 5:22pm |
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dantheman
Member Since: 12 Mar 2010
Location: Essex init
Posts: 123
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Why dont they not put their postcode on to cover their own backs and put the ball in the users court? Just a thought in these days of arse covering!! Unless of course that will loose them lots of business!! 
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 5:43pm |
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ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 890
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I thank you
IN SHORT - buying these plates is unlikely to be an issue for you the buyer as long as you are comfortable providing your personal data to an outfit like this.
Under Road Traffic and Numberplate legislation, as far as I can see the buyer of the plates has done nothing illegal in respect of numberplate/vehicle related offences by buying compliant plates. Thus there is nothing anyone can do if you buy those plates and put them in the correct place on your car. They are yours and that's it.
The only possible comeback is under general criminal law around offences such as fraudulent misrepresentation or something else, but to be frank I'd have to torture the fraud act to death to come up with something, and plough through case law to find anything else that would stick in court, or that the CPS would run with (or that the police would bother with). In theory you have aided and abetted the commission of the Supplier Regs offence but you'd have to be really unlucky to get hit with that! Might not stop the US Government trying to extradite you though
In practical terms, for you the punter, the police/VOSA want compliant plates on your car. They do not care, as a law abiding citizen, where you got them (assuming you haven't nicked them!), and even if they did would struggle to prove you failed to show the docs. Any half decent brief could get you off.
What they do care about is people supplying plates to criminals. But this is a supplier issue and does not affect individual buyers (unless your info ends up in the wrong hands or the police raid them and trawl through their customer records).
PLEASE NOTE
1) this assumes the plates supplied are road legal. The specs are here
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Perso.../DG_181503
2) this also assumes you are happy to provide personal data etc to businesses who may be operate at or beyond the fringes of the law. Motor vehicle crime is a major activity and the growth in crime around identities, cloning etc I'd pause for thought before passing on details to a firm who do not appear to be fully compliant.
But that is a personal choice around risk etc. What are the risks? As I see it there are 2 key ones:
1) your personal data (home address, reg, etc) is misused/passed to criminals
2) and/or the police undertake an investigation and you appear in it
But that could happen in any situation, including supposedly legal companies.
NOTE: if you have bought 10 sets of the same registration number you might find you have some explaining to do at some point Tony
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Last edited by ruggedpeak on Sat Jan 21 2012 5:52pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 5:45pm |
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DSL
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Heading here ^^^^ :)
Posts: 24237
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I'll help them with Bodsy's personal details, he lives in Telford, no matter what he said when buying it!!
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 5:48pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 27005
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Well I think this answers the pretending they are show plates line....
Quote:Sec 28 pt1 "A person who sells a plate or other device which is not a registration plate as a registration plate knowing that it is not a registration plate or being reckless as to whether it is a registration plate shall be guilty of an offence"
“registration plate” means a plate or other device which—
(a)displays (whether alone or in conjunction with other information) a registration mark;
(b)complies with requirements imposed by regulations made under section 27A(1)(a) of the 1994 Act; and
(c)is designed to be fixed to a vehicle or trailer in accordance with regulations made under section 22(2) or 23(3) of that Act; and
“selling registration plates” is to be construed in accordance with any regulations made under section 17(3)(a)
Existential Phenomenologist.
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 6:29pm |
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crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1976
 
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[/rant on]
This whole legislative effort is such a half arsed attempt to prevent criminals from making false number plates it almost beggars belief. Does any politician, lawyer or policeman actually believe any of these stupid regulations actually help prevent crime in any way?
Let me think…. the criminal breaks into someone's home, risks capture to steal the keys, drives the stolen car away, hides it for a week or two while he obtains genuine blank documents from his mate down the DVLA, copies and replaces the manufacturers VIN plates, and arranges shipping and buyers overseas. And the whole operation is foiled because he doesn't know how to get some number plates made up without showing documents!!!
Get real. The only people who are inconvenienced by stupid ill-conceived regulations like this are the law abiding members of society. The crims don't give two  .
And another thing… anyone else notice that the only people using human rights legislation are criminals?
[/rant off]
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| Sat Jan 21 2012 8:21pm |
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Frem
Member Since: 13 Jan 2012
Location: Herts
Posts: 96
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Now we've sorted out the n/plate issue what about the fact that when you buy a "cherished number" and pay hundreds if not thousands for it, you don't actually own that number, you actually pay for the privilege of using the number on your car.
DVLA own it and can recall it at anytime.
How's that for daylight robbery........ Discuss.
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| Sun Jan 22 2012 2:20am |
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Leesbay
Member Since: 20 Dec 2011
Location: in the NW
Posts: 222
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I have been warned twice in the past for non conformity of spacing of letters. £30 fine each time, but you don't get points. The police did take a picture and say they sent it to dvla, in a 3 strikes and out kind of scenario.
The second time his camera was broken so never heard from the dvla!
It's usually the plates that cost a few hundred quid that get mis~spaced as the ones that cost hours ands look good already.
Got a nice one on my D3 now, but as its only a black dot to make it look good, I haven't had any problems for past few years from the boys in blue, or the mot tester! Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer
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| Sun Jan 22 2012 11:10am |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Playing with the Grey Dogs
Posts: 8896
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Still going on about this chaps
My solution have your own body shop and make your own 
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| Sun Jan 22 2012 3:37pm |
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