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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
  
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sort of... DSC will not apply the brakes if the wheel speed for each wheel is within limits for the given steering angle and yaw rate
for example, if there is a high yaw rate and low steering angle, applying the brakes on the inside edge will reduce traction, on application of the brakes by driver input ABS will take over but also takes account of yaw rate and steering angle. In most situations DSC will not apply the brakes but activate suspension and engine torque control to correct the situation. ABS is more likely to kick in first as the driver applies the brakes with EBD (EBD has a lower input threshold than DSC) In an offroad situation (assuming TR GGS, or M&R or S or RC mode is invoked) which was the original subject of this thread - then DSC will not invoke braking effort via ABS
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 20th Mar 2009 12:03 am |
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Donald
Member Since: 15 May 2007
Location: Inverness
Posts: 188
 
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TFC, I agreed with you, DSC controls the situation and applies ABS ie brakes,
ARM - the stiffening of suspension, reduces power etc due to inputs to various sensors including the gyros. But I still think that's what happened here.
BCB Wether it should have as much control or not? I think that's up to the experiences we have with it individually. Chipped, K&N, tow pack, AT2's, Mantec, fridge in boot, invertor, Garmin, laptop/Memory Map, Optima yellow top, Traxide Kit, Phillips Extreme bulbs
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| 20th Mar 2009 12:03 am |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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I to have experienced this phenomena. In the snow whilst bashing through drifts. Similar situation as BCB. On the gas 3rd gear low range DSC on, Rock Crawl, up hill slope. Closed gate just after the last drift. We successfully negotiated the last drift so time to slow down. Off the gas and on to the brakes  Found the brake pedal was rock hard and the car was still driving  eventually the revs dropped and we came to a halt just before we hit the gate. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 20th Mar 2009 12:25 am |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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The D3 was designed from the tyres up to be optimised for an auto box with the manual box being a 'second order' option.... strangely the issues with DSC / TC only seem to afflict vehicles with automatic transmission 
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| 20th Mar 2009 12:35 am |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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Had similar on my last D3, twice. Once when on a local offroad course owned by the local LR independent and once on the lane from hell. I think TFC's comment at the time of the latter was "I thought you were better than that!" after I nearly put the car through a tree. Absolutely my fault in both instances - each required a fair bit of speed/momentum in very loose, wet mud followed by deceleration and steering input. Both times I overcooked it and found I had no braking until a second or so after I would have liked it  I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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| 20th Mar 2009 12:49 am |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
 
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ergo... BCB, sue LR for their systems causing you to kiss GLYNNES  
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| 20th Mar 2009 12:57 am |
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bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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 That would be nice Simon, but as I said at the beginning, that's not my aim.
I've also brought this to LRCS attention. They've asked me to go in to the dealer to have a check up, so we'll see if there's anything wrong with the vehicle (or if it's just the driver). I don't think there's anything wrong with the car, but I think I'd still like to understand what the vehicle systems were doing.
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| 20th Mar 2009 7:27 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Fist thing I would do is follow TFCs advice, undo the connector in the servo line next to the servo and tap the end against your hand. If you ave oil the seals are contaminated and are failing. Fist sign will be under hard and/or frequent braking.
The dealer will replace the vacuum pump, lines, servo and all hoses. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 20th Mar 2009 7:51 am |
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bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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First thing I will do... is wait for TFC's visit on Tuesday 
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| 20th Mar 2009 8:40 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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So what was the damage after kissing Glynne's a ......? Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 20th Mar 2009 9:59 am |
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shopbobby
Member Since: 08 Mar 2008
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 166
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10forcash wrote:DSL DSC does not apply the brakes, more likely that your vac pump is leaking engine oil into the servo reducing braking efficency, the test is to start the engine and fully depress the brake pedal until the servo assistance is lost, if this is <10 presses then the vac pump is suspect - open the servo vac pipe connector to check for engine oil in the pipe
BTW, vac pumps are on backorder 
Iain, Ive started the engine and the brake pedal goes hard within 3-4 depresions.
I assume the hose to check is the thin flexible one with a squeezable baynot fitting in the middle, if so there is a small amount of oil in there. 
The car is still under warranty (just) so is this a LRA matter, if the vac pumps are on back order, or just take it up with the dealer?
Cheers
Mark
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| 20th Mar 2009 10:09 am |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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if it affects the braking system, i'd go the LRA route, that way you'll get a replacement vehicle whilst the parts are sourced
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| 20th Mar 2009 10:25 am |
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shopbobby
Member Since: 08 Mar 2008
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 166
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Thats what I was thinking, espcially as the pump is on "back order"
Is it a known problem to LRA etc, or will it be an up hill struggle to get them to recover it?
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| 20th Mar 2009 10:42 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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LR should do a re-call on this issue but I guess they are waiting till someone is killed. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 20th Mar 2009 10:48 am |
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philthejono
Member Since: 01 Aug 2007
Location: Rugby
Posts: 85
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Just had my servo and vacuum pump replaced under warranty after found myself with foot to floor and no proper brake pressure. Looks like I was lucky in the parts front then!! Reason was oil in the brake system. There had been an oil leak that was near the near-side front wheel.
Question I am wondering about is how can oil get into the brake system in the first place? Did some looking around the site to find out what teh problem could be after car went in and there seem to be a few cases of the same. Is this a common fault then? 11 HSE Santorini Black
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| 20th Mar 2009 11:25 am |
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