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alangms
Member Since: 11 Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11
  
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| Will not start, key only operates central locking? |
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Hi all,
Have experienced a strange fault recently. When opening the car via the keyfob I noticed the indicator lights did not flash as normal. Putting the key into the ignition then set off the central locking, pulsing them on and off, turning the key does nothing and the only way to get started was remove the key, lock the car and try again  .
This has now happened on two occasions and took several attempts to get the car to re-boot! Also had a similar problem whilst driving, I noticed the interior lights were on and I had no indicators, stopping the car to lock it and try to re-boot resulted in not starting again  ?
As you can imagine, this is very annoying and seems to almost switch on an imobiliser, only settling down when IT wants to, not much help when parked in a busy location!
Any help or advise greatly appreciated  .
Alan
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 2nd Sep 2009 8:42 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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So many things it could be to be honest. If you could find out the trouble code (DTC) that would help greatly ...but prime suspects are
Mechanical
Misaligned door(s), hood or tailgate
Fuel filler door lock actuator Condition and installation Cable and pin
Hood release handle
Hood release cables
Hood latch(es)
Exterior door handle(s)
Interior door handle(s)
Cable(s)
Tailgate release switch
Rear window release switch
Electrical
Fuses
Wiring harness/electrical connectors Check for bent/corroded pins
Door lock actuator(s)
Remote transmitter
Central locking switches
Controller area network (CAN) circuits
Radio frequency (RF) receiver
Central junction box (CJB) 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 2nd Sep 2009 9:08 am |
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GaryEss
Member Since: 27 Apr 2009
Location: midlands
Posts: 42
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The syptoms you describe indicate that the CJB has lost communication with the Restraints control module. When this happens the CJB will automatically unlock the doors twice, switch on the interior lights and flash the hazard warning lamps.
When you said you have no indicators when the fault happens I assume you do not see the green warning arrows in the instrument cluster when you operate the switch, however were you able to see if the outside lamps are working? If they are, but no warning arrows then the issue is something to do with the MSCAN, either a network fault (OC, SC etc) or one of the modules on this network not operating correctly. You vehicle will become immobilised when you turn it off with the fault present as the CJB is at the end of the MSCAN and the immobiliser code travels along this network (but not soley on this network) on it's way to the PCM.
Has anyone recently removed the radio, temp control panel, IPK or CJB. These are on the MSCAN network.
If you carry out a DTC read you will have lots of U codes that will have cascaded around the system when the fault occured (plus others) so you will need to do a time based DTC sort to see what came first.
In terms of what you can do at home, if you have external indicators but no instrument warning arrows then check the connectors to all MSCAN modules. Also check for water ingress to CJB, behind glovebox and it's connectors. If there is nothing obvious a dealer visit will be needed
good luck
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| 2nd Sep 2009 2:09 pm |
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mouse470
Member Since: 26 Aug 2009
Location: berkshire
Posts: 20
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Sounds like a comms error to the CJB/SRS or a CJB error
Will req DTC read and network integrity test to check the comms
SRS/CJB comms is on the HS CAN network(high speed not medium speed network)
Good luck please keep us posted or pm me if req.
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| 2nd Sep 2009 9:10 pm |
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GaryEss
Member Since: 27 Apr 2009
Location: midlands
Posts: 42
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Sorry to repost, not out to prove anyone wrong, but CJB/SRS comms uses both MSCAN and HSCAN, (I did state that the comms between these two modules is not solely on MSCAN)
The message travels thus-
SRS broadcasts a message (effectively stating it's working and awake) on HSCAN
This goes to the IPK, which is the gateway between HSCAN and MSCAN.
IPK translates messages from HSCAN format to MSCAN format.
This then travels down the MSCAN to the CJB- any comms to or from the CJB MUST travel on MSCAN as the CJB is not connected to the HSCAN network. (check out the networks in a wiring diagram)
To determine where the fault lies, WHEN THE FAULT IS PRESENT check the green indicator warning lamps in the IPK- these are switched on by a message sent from the CJB whenever the indicator switch is operated and the external ind lamps are on. This message travels along the MSCAN to the IPK- so if they (green arrows)are present then MSCAN from the CJB to the IPK is intact and able to carry messages so your fault does not lie there
Any interuption to the network, either on the HSCAN from SRS to IPK or the MSCAN from IPK to CJB will give the symptoms of CDL, hazards, int light on that you describe.
Also how old is your car as pre 07 vehicles have modules which are through nodes, post 07 do not, this change was to improve the reliability of both CAN networks.
Knowing where and how the message travels, and likely easily visble symptoms when the fault occurs is the key to solving this intermittent fault- a network int test will indicate comms to all modules when the fault is not present, so if you do this it could be inconclusive unless your intermittent fault becomes permanent.
good luck
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| 3rd Sep 2009 7:01 pm |
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mouse470
Member Since: 26 Aug 2009
Location: berkshire
Posts: 20
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Exellent post and very informative but to be honest how is this helping?
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| 3rd Sep 2009 10:16 pm |
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GaryEss
Member Since: 27 Apr 2009
Location: midlands
Posts: 42
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If the OP (alangms) knows what to look for and why when this intermittent fault occurs, then it will help whoever has to look for the cause at a later date, possibly when the issue is no longer present.
It wouldn't be fair to say to alangms "look for the IPK warning arrows" then not explain why this is a useful diagnostic technique.
Plus it's always useful for everyone who visits a post to find out the technically correct information on how the systems work for future reference.
So from my point of view, yes, if Alangms can tell me more about the symptoms then it is helping me to (possibly ) help him find out what's wrong, since I cannot test his car myself
Alangms, apologies for refering to you as a 3rd party during this post and using your post to explain myself, I won't do it again and will remain on thread - good luck at getting it fixed
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| 4th Sep 2009 2:21 pm |
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