Roel
Member Since: 16 Aug 2008
Location: home
Posts: 1215
  
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4m is probably just on the second layer or end off the first layer. I wasn't there so I am not sure but sounds to me that we getting ready to winch the cable wasn't tight enough on the winch just a little slack and starting winching can cause a kink like that.
If its 4 m off the start you could think about cutting this 4m off and have a little shorter cable. I know that next time you get stuck the tree is just 2m to far away.  Roel
1997 Camel Trophy Disco ex-P101JWK (traded it for a Britains 42101)
1984 90 TD5
2005 G4 Disco 3 BN55WPT
Also member of club MTR
and Club Faultmate
Interested in my 4x4 history see my website: www.mudmachine.webklik.nl
Sorry it's in Dutch and with google translator it gets funny.
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 21st Jun 2009 10:10 pm |
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TJ101
Member Since: 06 Feb 2007
Location: Taunton Somerset UK
Posts: 53
  
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AndrewS wrote:The electric motor creates the heat which transfers to the drum. A plasma rope will insulate the drum thus retaing the heat which builds up and will end up damaging the rope.
Andrew,, strange, 
Never had a motor get that hot, to damage a synthetic rope,, certainly not on a pull,, have had it when lowering out with a low line winch,, due to the brake !!!
I would suspect the motor if it gets that hot !!! RR TDV8 Vog SE, RRS G4 (Gone) D4 HSE (Gone) D3 G4 (Gone) 110 CSW TDCi XS
http://www.wessex4x4response.org.uk
http://forum.innovate4x4.com
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| 22nd Jun 2009 9:50 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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Have you ever winched a 'stuck' D3  You will find that the xp will be on its limits working very hard and gets very hot. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 23rd Jun 2009 8:20 am |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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Andrew I think some quality winch demos at Rockingham/Tix are required to demostrate to peeps exactly what happens with Plasma type ropes 
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| 23rd Jun 2009 9:43 am |
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Non Stick Nick
Member Since: 02 Oct 2005
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 772
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It seems clear that all appreciate that winching out creates heat within the drum when the brake is in the drum.
However fewer people appreciate that when the winch is working very hard, as Andrew describes, heat can built up. Heat causes increased resistance with the electric components which, guees what, casues increased resistance and so the circle gets more visious.
One of the good points of a steal wire is that it can act as a heat sink for the heat build up. Not many others IMHO though.
Best advice as already quoted is get some training.
Nick I am a hob nobber.
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| 23rd Jun 2009 10:38 am |
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NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 2466
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Thanks, all, for the advice, especially on the plasma/SWR choice.
I will buy a SWR replacement. Arbil offers it for £34.85 at http://www.arbil4x4.co.uk/category.php?category=129 or a Warn original for £139.70 at http://arbil4x4.co.uk/category.php?category=43. I will go for the Arbil rope unless someone better in the know shouts foul.
Arbil's prices for other winch kit like snatch blocks and tree strops also seems reasonable, and better than most 4x4 fairs I've been to. Air compressors look pricey though.
marcon wrote:I have steel rope that I took off my winch,but getting it to you from Ireland would be too expensive,unless you are coming to UK and maybe with Tanters help I could get it to B-Ham.
Cheers, marcon, but if the new price is really as cheap as chips and with logistics and orders for other kit to factor in, I'll go with a new order.
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| 26th Jun 2009 8:55 pm |
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Andy-T
Member Since: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9
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Hi,
Interesting thread.
I have been involved for a number of years now with Plasma for use on various global adventures with orange toys
They have never had any heat issues with the line and moved to Plasma because this was a superior product to all the others tested and also much safer.
They also beat the crap out of it as well!!!
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| 29th Jun 2009 1:10 pm |
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troverman
Member Since: 09 Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 51
  
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How much weight is saved by switching from cable to plasma rope? We have the factory winch with the standard cable. It has been used probably only 5 times. I changed the standard hawse to a stainless roller fairlead for a couple of reasons: the original black hawse started to rust where paint was scraped off by winching; this looked awful against the backdrop of a shiny LR3, and I wanted to be able to do side pull if necessary.
I would like to make the front a little lighter--you would think the extra weight of the winch on the front air springs all the time would shorten their life.
What does the complete winch assy. weigh?
Thanks Current Rovers:
2005 LR3 V8 SE
1992 Range Rover County
1997 Range Rover 4.0SE
Previous Rovers:
2000 Discovery II SD
1995 Range Rover 4.0SE
1992 Range Rover County
Also Current:
2012 Volkswagen GTI 2.0 TSI
1995 Mercedes-Benz E320
1999 Audi A8 4.2 quattro
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| 29th Jun 2009 8:05 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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Andy-T wrote:Hi,
Interesting thread.
I have been involved for a number of years now with Plasma for use on various global adventures with orange toys
They have never had any heat issues with the line and moved to Plasma because this was a superior product to all the others tested and also much safer.
They also beat the crap out of it as well!!!
Cool can you tell me why have I experienced and witnessed winch ropes melt on a D3 with a Warn XP9.5 are there cheap imitation 'plasma' ropes on the market
Oh yea what will a 12mm thick 80m long plasma rope cost  or would a 14mm be better In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 29th Jun 2009 8:36 pm |
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Andy-T
Member Since: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9
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troverman wrote:How much weight is saved by switching from cable to plasma rope? We have the factory winch with the standard cable. It has been used probably only 5 times. I changed the standard hawse to a stainless roller fairlead for a couple of reasons: the original black hawse started to rust where paint was scraped off by winching; this looked awful against the backdrop of a shiny LR3, and I wanted to be able to do side pull if necessary.
I would like to make the front a little lighter--you would think the extra weight of the winch on the front air springs all the time would shorten their life.
What does the complete winch assy. weigh?
Thanks
Hi,
A couple of questions here that I can answer and a couple I can't.
So here goes,
You will save at least 8-10 kgs by changing to synthetic line. The Plasma line is so light it floats!
You will also save a further 1-2kgs if you change your rollers to an Aluminium Hawse fairlead.
This will make a sizeable difference to the weight on the extreme front of your vehicle.
If you visit the Warn website you will find weight ratings for all their winches.
Regards,
Andy Thomlinson.
Last edited by Andy-T on 30th Jun 2009 8:02 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 30th Jun 2009 7:56 am |
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Andy-T
Member Since: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9
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AndrewS wrote:Cool can you tell me why have I experienced and witnessed winch ropes melt on a D3 with a Warn XP9.5 are there cheap imitation 'plasma' ropes on the market
Oh yea what will a 12mm thick 80m long plasma rope cost or would a 14mm be better
Hi, Not sure I can answer your first question as I have never seen melted Plasma as you describe.
Yes - immitations are out there - be wary of what you buy.
Regarding your pricing query - I can only suggest you check the web for Plasma suppliers and approach them for prices, however, 12mm & 14mm Plasma are way to overspecced for your winch.
Andy Thomlinson.
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| 30th Jun 2009 8:00 am |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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Andy-T wrote: however, 12mm & 14mm Plasma are way to overspecced for your winch.
Andy Thomlinson.
How do you know what winch I have In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 30th Jun 2009 8:28 am |
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Willy Eckerslike
Member Since: 12 Jan 2009
Location: N Yorks
Posts: 1612
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Depends on what safety factor AndrewS would want to run with, 16t breaking strain is not that much when you take into account safety factor, eye splice reduction, small amounts of damage, a fully loaded and bogged down D3 must take some moving.
Or am I wrong again
Edit: Example a 10mm wire used in lifting(not winching) is rated at 1t swl 5 to 1 safety factor. Club Pie n Pea
One life....Fish it
D3 Gone but not forgotten
Club Men of Oak
Club Walnut sniffers
D4 Van owner
Ents long lost Uncle
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| 30th Jun 2009 8:31 am |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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JF Lux wrote:AndrewS wrote:Did you pre load the cable
I can answer on behalf of NJF - yes, the cable has been pre-loaded.
The two of us stressed the cable using the D3's as the weight. I can't comment as to whether it was enough - we only did it once. We did unwind almost the whole cable. This kink is about 4 meters in.
Pre-loading isn't the only issue, you should also make sure that each wind of cable is tight against the previous one - i.e. no gaps - not even the smallest one. This is to prevent the winch rope pulling down between the layers and creating the effect shown it the photo's at the start of this thread
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| 30th Jun 2009 11:45 am |
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JF Lux
Member Since: 08 Sep 2007
Location: A little country in Europe
Posts: 3522
 
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@TFC - based on your note, would you therefore say that after a recovery the cable should be re-wound to avoid gaps?
When winching during the recovery it's not possible to ensure there are no gaps etc (I'm assuming).
This could be what happened in this instance. IIRC the winch was used about 4 times during the day. The next American ex-pat that calls it a "truck" is going to find out what 2.7 tons feels like on their foot...
Club "yes, I too have had the EGR's replaced..."
Club "yes, I too have had the compressor replaced..."
Club "yes, I too once had the car at the dealer for a couple of weeks nearly 4 weeks over 4 weeks...5 weeks"
Club "yes, I too have had EPB failure..."
Club "yes, I too get mysterious bings and bongs..."
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| 30th Jun 2009 12:32 pm |
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