Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
JF Lux wrote:
When winching during the recovery it's not possible to ensure there are no gaps etc (I'm assuming).
Yes it is some proper winch training will reveal all
30th Jun 2009 12:55 pm
Willy Eckerslike
Member Since: 12 Jan 2009
Location: N Yorks
Posts: 1612
NJF, when you stand infront of your winch and look at it, where does the wire attach, top or bottom, left or right, the rope you are holding up is right lay regular and as such can be attached overwind (top ) left to right or underwind (btm) right to left, attached different to this and it will tend to want to build up at the drum end.Club Pie n Pea
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30th Jun 2009 1:02 pm
MARKW
Member Since: 29 Aug 2008
Location: SW
Posts: 2390
I regularly compete in winch challenge events. Winning my class in the series last year. And winning my class this weekend just gone. So I know a little bit about winching and care of them and the rope. We broke 1 rope in 10 events. Some of the pulls were at silly angles to the car, some were that hard it nearly stalled the motor. During an average winch event we would winch approx 10 to 15 X the length of the rope. Obviously the first 10m or so would get a hammering. Only on an extreme side pull would I pull the rope off and layer up on the opposite side to the pull so I didn't foul the tie bars.
I have also competed in my challenge truck for a few seasons. And have never seen Plasma melt, through winching in.
Winches involved on both veh are 8274 + Husky on recent events. On mine a G10 and a Husky.
The only winches that don't harm Plasma on the winch out cycle are the models with a cone brake. Otherwise the brakes do bind on.
Do you have any pics of the melted rope? How bad was it melted? Or just got hot and squished together a bit?HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE
They shall not grow old as those of us left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condem. At the going down of the sun, and in the morning WE WILL REMEMBER THEM
@TFC - based on your note, would you therefore say that after a recovery the cable should be re-wound to avoid gaps?
I can answer that one.... ideally you should be winding it on without gaps during the recovery, if you can't for whatever reason then yes definitely spool it out and do it again (under tension) without gaps. Do this during the recovery if you can too
Sounds to me like there's a need for another winch training session or two by TFC/AndrewSThe End
30th Jun 2009 2:02 pm
Andy-T
Member Since: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9
Re: Winch rope man
AndrewS wrote:
Andy-T wrote:
however, 12mm & 14mm Plasma are way to overspecced for your winch.
Andy Thomlinson.
How do you know what winch I have
OK,
Good question - what winch do you have then??
Andy Thomlinson.
30th Jun 2009 4:23 pm
Andy-T
Member Since: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9
Willy Eckerslike wrote:
Depends on what safety factor AndrewS would want to run with, 16t breaking strain is not that much when you take into account safety factor, eye splice reduction, small amounts of damage, a fully loaded and bogged down D3 must take some moving.
Or am I wrong again
Edit: Example a 10mm wire used in lifting(not winching) is rated at 1t swl 5 to 1 safety factor.
Hi,
Intersting point. It does not really matter how much the vehicle weighs - only the stall out of the winch.
Your point about lifting/winching - when does a pull become a lift - point to ponder as no winch should ever be used to lift according to the manufacturers instructions, hence not governed by regulation..
So, put a Warn winch, any one will do between 8000lbs and 12,000lbs. (The usual ones to appear on the front of 4x4's)
This winch will stall out, on the bottom layer only at about the max pulling power advertised, once you get to the second, third or even 4th layer, the stall has dropped by about 10-15% per layer.
(Now that is assuming your electrical system is perfect, the battery/s fully charged and your winch is brand new!)
So yer 9000lb winch will stall out at 6000lbs approx on the 4th layer.
Three metric ton - about the same as a well bogged down vehicle I would suggest.
Time to reach for the snatch block I think!
Why put anything over 17.500lbs NBS ( 9.5mm Plasma) on this winch unless you plan to compete and are likely to give it more abrasion damage, leading to early failure.
The G4 Landrovers went for 11mm Plasma rated at 21,000lbs on lowline warn 9000lbs winches because of the likely punishment levels and extreme operating conditions - they were not dissapointed with the Plasma!
Andy Thomlinson..
30th Jun 2009 4:39 pm
SJR
Member Since: 09 Aug 2006
Location: East Manchester
Posts: 4030
Re: Winch rope man
Andy-T wrote:
AndrewS wrote:
Andy-T wrote:
however, 12mm & 14mm Plasma are way to overspecced for your winch.
Andy Thomlinson.
How do you know what winch I have
OK,
Good question - what winch do you have then??
Andy Thomlinson.
From AndrewS's gallery
I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
30th Jun 2009 4:42 pm
Andy-T
Member Since: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9
Nice, very nice!
Looks like a Warn Powerplant winch to me either 9000lbs or 12,000lbs.
However,
2 things concern me with this setup.
1. The winch sits so low it will double a snowplough during the winter & limit approach angles severely
2. It must weigh a ton at the front of the vehicle, making it handle like a swine.
It would probably rise a fair bit & handle better if it had synthetic line and an ali hawse on it,
I would expect to see either 9.5mm or 11mm Plasma on this winch.
(It is supplied with 125ft of 8mm/80ft of 9.5mm steel).
Andy Thomlinson.
30th Jun 2009 5:05 pm
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Andy I'm sure AndrewS will be along after hes finished the Lion off but his PP winch basically uses the same winch tray as the OEM one (I did say basically) also a Bogged down 2.7 t plus kit D3 is a bit more than 3t
Come along to the Rockingham event you may be surprised
30th Jun 2009 5:53 pm
Andy-T
Member Since: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9
I hear you.
Merely making the point that even a new 9000lbs winch is not really up to the job of recovering one of these trucks.
Also that fitting a heavier line will make no real difference to operating the winch.
Andy Thomlinson.
30th Jun 2009 7:07 pm
10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
From memory, the winch is the 12k lb version, I wouldn't attempt to recover a loaded D3 stuck in mud without a double line pull, in some circumstances i'd winch through an obstacle in preference to 'driving until stuck' then winching to reduce the load on the winch and the vehicles chassis. Obviously this is from the POV of an overlander and wouldn't be relevant to a challenge event, but who'd do one of those in a D3
Oh, hang on
30th Jun 2009 7:13 pm
AndrewS Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
Andy-T wrote:
2 things concern me with this setup.
1. The winch sits so low it will double a snowplough during the winter & limit approach angles severely
In the pic shown the suspension is in the access setting, the bottom of the winch is the same height as the LR one.
Andy-T wrote:
2. It must weigh a ton at the front of the vehicle, making it handle like a swine.
Yes its heavy but then its on a D3 so TBH it makes no difference to the handling.In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
30th Jun 2009 7:28 pm
NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 2466
Willy Eckerslike wrote:
NJF, when you stand infront of your winch and look at it, where does the wire attach, top or bottom, left or right,
The rope is fixed to the left-hand side and spools beneath the drum, exactly as indicated on the installation instructions. The fitting was not the problem (TFC - top job). The problem was in the muppet operator, i.e., me.
Or the muppet that got stuck and needed recovering.... The next American ex-pat that calls it a "truck" is going to find out what 2.7 tons feels like on their foot...
Club "yes, I too have had the EGR's replaced..."
Club "yes, I too have had the compressor replaced..."
Club "yes, I too once had the car at the dealer for a couple of weeksnearly 4 weeksover 4 weeks...5 weeks"
Club "yes, I too have had EPB failure..."
Club "yes, I too get mysterious bings and bongs..."
Question is, did you need to use the winch for the recovery? Or would more traditional recovery techniques have done the trick?
There's been more than one recovery I've effected with good old ropes and swearing before the winch-happy crowd have got their line out.
I'm sure the day will come when I'll bite the bullet and get a winch, but for now it doesn't stack up financially when I look at the likely amount of use vs the costs.I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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but his PP winch basically uses the same winch tray as the OEM one (I did say basically) also a Bogged down 2.7 t plus kit D3 is a bit more than 3t
