Member Since: 24 Feb 2023
Location: Dorset
Posts: 15
gstuart wrote:
Hi
Hope u don’t mind me adding this, but shows the location of the earth points of various sensors used including the steering wheel angle sensor , ref C2627
Fingers crossed it may be useful
Thanks for posting the images G - query where did you get the connector images from - I have the Workshop Manual and the Electrical diagrams but it doesn't contain the connector locations and pin out diagrams (like the RAVE electrical Documents for the older vehicles).??
24th Feb 2023 12:43 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13657
Ur so welcome , here’s a link to many Land Rover models
Hope that helps plus great to see you here mate , indeed ur find everyone here extremely helpful and knowledgeable
24th Feb 2023 4:04 am
Saint.V8
Member Since: 24 Feb 2023
Location: Dorset
Posts: 15
That is a great resource you have compiled - I will browse with earnest to seek the resolution.
As keen as I am to get cracking on Saturday, alas family matters take precedence (Dads birthday!) so Sunday is when I will begin wire chasing to see why a replacement ABS ECU and a replacement Yaw Rate Sensor still report the exact same error as the originals!
Stand ready!
24th Feb 2023 3:56 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13657
Ur so welcome , indeed always nice being able to pass it on so to speak after I received so much fantastic help
Have kept so much data over the years,
If it also helps and u wish to carry out some other tests ,
Yaw sensor
Turn the ignition on. Measure the Vdc on pin 1 of the connector
Turn the ignition on. Measure the voltage between the grounding point ( 3196 in the picture) to the negative battery terminal
Assume every time u need to swap/ replace the steering wheel angle sensor : yaw box etc u need to recalibrate it
Lastly have u tried doing a hard reset plse , by connecting the battery leads, ensuring the cables don’t touch the battery posts for around 15 x minutes
Hope u find out what it is mate and the above is useful to u
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
25th Feb 2023 8:21 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13657
Also found this for u being a test between ur yaw sensor and ABS module, have also found the pin identification for u to make life easier to know where they are
Measure the resistance between pins 2 yaw and 25 ABS , should be a yellow / black wire
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
25th Feb 2023 8:28 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13657
Also very curious of the canbus test results on pins 14 - 4 and 14 - 5 of why the Vdc were low , being ur chassis and signal grounds and Canbus low
May I also ask have u checked the TCM module behind the battery plse as know there issues of water ingress there , causing the pis to go green , plus know the ECM module uses the earth points behind the front passenger side wheel arch liner
Hopefully seeing there’s Yaw sensor errors they will be the total root of the issues
Fingers crossed mate and the above is helpful
6-14 = 59.8 ohms
3-11 = 62.2 ohms
6-4 = 2.4V
6-5= 2.4V
14-4 = 1.33V
14-5 = 1.33V
25th Feb 2023 9:02 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13657
Found another connector for u in case it’s useful , it’s in between the yaw module and ABS module
Click image to enlarge
25th Feb 2023 9:19 am
Saint.V8
Member Since: 24 Feb 2023
Location: Dorset
Posts: 15
Once again, many thanks for such awesome advice and information...
Curiously, my Yaw Rate Sensor wiring doesn't go via the Drivers (UK) side of the car, I pulled up all the carpet and chased the wiring along the Pax side (UK) and these was also no intermediate connector on the A pillar!!!!?!???!?!??!
I post a video showing continuity from the Yaw Sensor Connector all the way up to the ABS Connector on both the Yellow/Black and the Yellow/Brown wires, earth continuity to the Yaw Rate Sensor and also power thereto....
I also attach some photos of the TCCM connectors and the the like!! Just don't tell my Daughter I used her toothbrush to clean the contact out!
Connected Pos and Neg with a jump lead and have been attached for a good while now!
The large grey is looking a little discoloured, but cleaned it as best I could!
The TCCM module pins are clean as well - it looks damp, but that is just residual undried when I took the picture contact cleaner!
I opened the TCCM the other day and it is clean as a whistle in there too...
I am about to put it all back together again and see what occurs after all this devastation.
I'll post back later once it is all back together.
26th Feb 2023 3:44 pm
Saint.V8
Member Since: 24 Feb 2023
Location: Dorset
Posts: 15
So, after doing this to the interior...
I am still getting these....
How annoying!!!
I don't understand - I have proved continuity on all 4 wires - continuity from the Yellow/black and yellow/brown to the ABS module....earth continuity and also power....
The Yaw Sensor has been replaced, as has the ABS ECU....and still the same fault remains.
The saga continues.....time for dinner!
26th Feb 2023 7:18 pm
Saint.V8
Member Since: 24 Feb 2023
Location: Dorset
Posts: 15
So a few weeks ago I ran new wiring from the Yaw Rate Sensor up to the ABS module:
But that didn't change a thing, it still reported a circuit fault on both the Yaw and Laterla readings....
Also, the actual Live Data figures for the Yaw and Lateral didn't budge!!
So, I have proved power and ground are good, I have run new wires direct to the ABS module, i have changed the Sensor for a replacement, I have changed the ABS module for a replacement and it still reports the same faults and the same live data readings....
On suggestion, this weekend I changed the Steering Angle Sensor and recalibrated and that did nothing either!!
Another suggestion was to drive it in Low Range in every gear and then reverse for a 100yds or so, and it may take a couple of goes as this apparently may reset the Yaw Sensor - but this also has had no effect.
I have scoped the CANBus and that seems to be talking OK - although curiously when you turn the ignition off, the CAN signal changes as if the CAN is shorted to ground as per my video here:
Not sure if that is correct behaviour as on my BMW when you turn the ignition off and the CAN goes to sleep the voltage flatlines. I will need to see if I can find someone local with a D3 how is willing to let me scope their CAN and find out!
I am running out of ideas now - as per the other posts above, I have checked and cleaned the TCM connections and also opened it up and all looks good.
I am at a loss as to what the cause is - anyone ave any further ideas on what can be checked?
2nd May 2023 11:25 am
Saint.V8
Member Since: 24 Feb 2023
Location: Dorset
Posts: 15
The waveform on the CAN goes immediately to short to ground when you turn the ignition off, which I am not 100% sure is correct as I am sure (and as listed above) there should be a period of time before the CAN sleeps - and when the CAN sleeps on the BMW it goes flatline, whereas on the D3 if shorts itself to ground as soon as you turn the ignition off - this is shown by the fact the CAN High Signal carries on but the CAN Low Signal is immediately pulling down to 0V - whereas the 'off' state is 2.4-2.5V....this is shown in this video from MechanicMindset at 4m10s:
?t=250
I am sure it should not short to ground on ignition off....
Anyhow: I did get it on Autologic to pull the exact 7 digit code for the Yaw and Lateral faults:
C1A197-86 - Lateral Accelerometer Circuit - Signal is Invalid
C1A198-01 - Yaw Rate Sensor Circuit - General Electrical Failure
C1A198-86 - Yaw Rate Sensor Circuit - Signal is Invalid
C1A97-86
Lateral Accelerometer -Signal invalid
Signal invalid
..Signal circuit high resistance
..Signal circuit short circuit to ground
..Signal circuit short circuit to power
Yaw rate/lateral acceleration sensor internal error
Check the combined lateral acceleration/yaw
rate sensor installation. Refer to the electrical
guides and check the yaw rate sensor circuit.
Repair/renew as necessary. Refer to the
relevant section of the workshop manual. Refer
to the guided diagnostic routine for this code
on the approved diagnostic system.
C1A98-01 Yaw Rate Sensor - General electrical failure
General electrical failure
..Reference circuit high resistance (DRSR pin)
..Reference circuit short circuit to ground (DRSR pin)
..Reference circuit short circuit to power (DRSR pin)
Yaw rate/lateral acceleration sensor internal error
Check the combined lateral acceleration/yaw
rate sensor installation. Refer to the electrical
guides and check the yaw rate sensor circuit.
Repair/renew as necessary. Refer to the
relevant section of the workshop manual. Refer
to the guided diagnostic routine for this code
on the approved diagnostic system.
C1A98-86 Yaw Rate Sensor - Signal invalid
Signal invalid
..Signal circuit high resistance (DRSS pin)
..Signal circuit short circuit to ground (DRSS pin)
..Signal circuit short circuit to power (DRSS pin)
Yaw rate/lateral acceleration sensor internal error
Check the combined lateral acceleration/yaw
rate sensor installation. Refer to the electrical
guides and check the yaw rate sensor circuit.
Repair/renew as necessary. Refer to the
relevant section of the workshop manual. Refer
to the guided diagnostic routine for this code
on the approved diagnostic system.
So it could be a bad reference voltage to the sensor. I pulled fuse 37 (5amp) which provides voltage to the sensor and also to the ABS module and it is fine, measured the voltage at the fuse and that is spot on with battery voltage.
What I am planning to do next is to give it a direct connection to the battery bypassing fuse 37 and seeing if it could be a dodgy power feed to the sensor giving spurious readings - as one of the fault causes for C1A98-01 is poor quality reference voltage.
I tried to eliminate the Signal Circuit issues by using a new wired connection to the ABS module as shown in the video, but still had the same faults....so I wonder if it could be poor quality reference voltage feeding the sensor - its worth a shot!
2nd May 2023 3:15 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13657
Fingers crossed someone will come along soon to help in case they’ve had the same issue mate
2nd May 2023 5:27 pm
Saint.V8
Member Since: 24 Feb 2023
Location: Dorset
Posts: 15
All earths check out perfectly, annoyingly!!!
I gave the Yaw Sensor a new earth and also a new positive direct to the battery:
But made feck all difference - I even unplugged the sensor and the Live Data still gave spurious readings....
So I have given it a new power feed, new earth and run two new wires directly to the ABS ECU so it has bypassed ALL connections in the vehicle and it still says something stupid - with BOTH sensors - the chances of both sensors being bandy and/or both ABS ECUs being bandy and giving the exact same error and exact same readings are quite remote.
It is also a replacement Steering Angle Sensor and while I changed it I checked the collar on the shaft and that is all good.
I may see if I can get a replacement TCCM even though there is nothing seemingly wrong with the current one....but these are also a known trouble spot!
Grrrrrrr..........
3rd May 2023 10:19 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13657
Indeed that’s really weird how the figures don’t change even after unplugging the yaw sensor
See you’ve got the correct yaw module as in after 2007 , plus seeing u have the 5vdc ref voltage and earths at the module is bizarre why is doesn’t change
Haven’t read anywhere that it doesn’t matter if fitting a new or second hand yaw module nor it requiring resetting / calibration , assume it’s just plug and play
Know many of the forum members here are extremely knowledgeable as alas simply can’t think of anything that you’ve already done
Last night I wondered if the 3 x connectors that sit behind ur passenger side headlight are ok along with the earths that sit behind ur near side front wheel arch liner , unless that earth has also been moved to behind the headlights
Just know that earth is used by the TCM and ECM , plus if those other connectors at the near side rear wheel have any bearing on the yaw sensor
Another thing I can’t find out is if u need to reprogram the ABS module when it’s replaced
Hopefully it’s something simple but indeed can understand the frustration of trying to find the
Ps, just thought isn’t there another module that sits in the headliner as part of the alarm sensor , as in if the vehicle is jacked up etc it sets the alarm off, I’ll find a wiring diagram in case it’s tied in with the yaw sensor , ???? ,
3rd May 2023 2:50 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13657
Apologises if you’ve already seen this , I just looked out of curiosity to see what components were linked into the yaw sensor
Wondered if the wheel speed sensors, brake light switch is all ok as part of eliminating them within the list ??
Sorry me waffling , just thinking out loud so to speak
The anti-lock control - traction control system is based on the 4 channel Bosch 8.0 system and provides the following brake functions:
Anti-lock Braking System (ABS).
Corner Brake Control (BC).
Dynamic Stability Control (DSC).
Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD).
Electronic Traction Control (ETC).
Emergency Brake Assist (EBA).
Engine Drag-torque Control (EDC).
Hill Descent Control (HDC).
The system consists of the following components:
• A DSC switch.
An HDC switch.
An HDC relay.
A stoplamp switch.
Four wheel speed sensors.
A yaw rate and lateral acceleration sensor.
A steering angle sensor.
• Warning indicators; four on vehicles with a high line instrument cluster and five on vehicles with a low line instrument cluster.
• A Hydraulic Control Unit (HCU) with attached ABS module.
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