this file is very much landrover discovery and range rover specific.. by Dr Peter Wells at Cardiff Business School’s Centre for Automotive Industry Research.
I read this today and whilst the guy obviously has a B in his bonnet about 4x4's in general and LR in particular, much of what he says is true, although presented in a rather biased manner.
I have to agree. I too read the report (better than doing work, anyway) and had the following thoughts:
-the report is prety factually truthful (as I would have expected)
-it takes the D3 and RR as 2 example cars, onto which he makes his points
-whilst the report starts by comparing the CO2 emissions, it seems to concentrate more on the 'trendy slab front' of the vehicle design and the consequent effect on pedestrian impact.
-it also concentrates on the aspirational marketing of LR. It doesn't however point out that this approach is used by every single premium brand team on the planet.
It does concede that the road 'footprint' of the D3 / RR is modest in comparison with other cars, but generalises about the excessive width and height and the consequent effect on other cars' visibility.
[Apologies for the fragmented listing -it's a good 24 hrs since I read the thing]
I do think it unfortunate that the balancing arguments of 4x4 ownership were rather lost in the unfocused presentation of the report, and that his choice of cars for analysis were at best misguided. He started his report stating that the Freelander (& medium size 4x4) was by far the most popular of the 4x4s, but instead of detailed analysis of this he chose to 'pick on' the larger d3 / RR instead.
I don't necessarily think it fair to take this as a criticism of the British motoring industry as a whole. If we take that stance then Clarkson would be strung up for vilifying the whole Vauxhall brand for years...
His (decent) argument was more along the approach that, whilst the motorist was misguided in choosing an urban 4x4, the manufacturers should take the blame and must concentrate on economy, emissions and pedestrian crash performance (blame aside- these seem worthy goals!).Discovery 3 tdv6 7 seat Buckingham Blue
Had it since new - sold Jun 17 after 12 years and 214,000 miles
26th Jul 2006 7:34 am
simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
sst wrote:
Religion and/or Politics will wipe us all out way before Global Warming has a chance to.
Sadly more than likely very true...
26th Jul 2006 8:45 am
lawman
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: South East
Posts: 72
On their argument he is NEEDLESSLY driving a 4x4 and DAMAGING THE ENVIRONMENT BY DRIVING OFF ROAD FOR FUN!
26th Jul 2006 1:11 pm
Gurvan
Member Since: 02 Jan 2005
Location: Germany... Not far from both the US and Hard German rock...
Posts: 1089
Anyway, their outboards and their Helicopter are not environmentally friendly...
Hell, that helo probably rejects in one flight more CO2 than my car in one year...Georgia On My Mind...
26th Jul 2006 1:19 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
Seems to be no razors on the boats; are they not allowed sharp instruments? DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
26th Jul 2006 1:35 pm
lawman
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: South East
Posts: 72
They will say they need the boats, helicopter etc to pursue a greater cause and the public will accept that. My point about the pilot is that building and driving a 4x4 offroad for fun is TOTALLY inexcusable for a fully paid-up Greenpeace member. Air pollution and damage to the land in the pursuit of fun. Sounds a tad tricky for them to defend?
I have had to deal with pressure groups on many occasions in the past and shouting at them that you have rights never works IMHO. What does work is 'engage and shaft' which roughly translated means speak to them and then cut the ground out from under them by nailing them for hypocrisy.
If you drive to their HQ and shout at them they will simply put out a press release saying that a raft of 4x4's turned up to complain about their stoic efforts etc etc and that X amount of fuel was burned in the process which could have powered some veggie machine for 600 years
26th Jul 2006 1:50 pm
Buckingham
Member Since: 08 Mar 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 957
Well I would have been impressed if Thandie Newton had had her SUV crushed and then bought a Prius...but she didn't and now someone else is driving around in it polluting the planet instead...
Slimer wrote:
They really have stooped to their lowest now. They were once a respected organisation doing stuff that seemed to really be important but nowadays they're just a farce. How can anyone ever take them seriously again after that?
Is Red Ken running them nowadays? Redpeace maybe
Respected organisation!!?? I used to be a nuclear submariner so have had my share of these C***S. The don't even know what it is that they're supposed to be protesting against half the time. Funniest thing I ever saw was when some of the tw**s got on to one of the boats up in Scotland. A Royal Marine came around the side of the fin and smacked him with his rifle butt....
I have a cousin who was pretty instrumental within greenpeace in the 80s and 90s. He used to tell me of the criminal activities he would get up to and how they would tear about in their twin engined rigid raiders...I would ask him why, if they were so concerned, they didn't row or use sails. He never gave an answer...what does he do now? Well he organises campaigns and demonstrations for any group that pays enough... he's probably behind this one!!
26th Jul 2006 3:40 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
You've hit the nail on the head, it is an occupation and run as a business. Take he RSPCA as an example, it couldn't take in more abandoned animals because it had spent its money on paper adverts against hunting and building a new HO on a green field site near me. IFAW is another example, the blokes who set the company up retired with a multi million dollar payout.
Driving round shouting at them does not help and will lay you open to more criticsm which gets them more publicity. They will really really want you to be violent too - more publicity. We have a hunt sabateour round here who has been trampled by horses so many times it is untrue and then claims from the video evidence she was run down on purpose, despite the fact you see her step into the horses path at the last minute.
IMO the best thing you can do is to keep buying British 4x4 products and stuff 'emDS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
26th Jul 2006 4:03 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Pelyma wrote:
Driving round shouting at them does not help
Very pertinent points Paul, but you have to admit that the pro-hunt protests held in London and around the country helped to show the level of support for the cause and perhaps helped to temper the legislation somewhat. No??21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
26th Jul 2006 4:15 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
Not sure how it was tempered really unless you consider I can hunt a rat, but not a mouse and a rabbit but not a hare tempering.
Ultimately the marches made pretty pictures, but it was the press that made the difference. This was and is achieved by careful work with the press showing the lunacy and bigotry of it all. Added to this the legislation is so poorly worded that it will fail anyway.
I would say this is how the 4x4 movement should be operating. Get the press on side, show the hypocrisy of it all and be whiter than white DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
26th Jul 2006 5:10 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23369
Sometimes I do wonder if there is a limit to the stupidity of big organizations (Like WHO or closer to us Greenpiss...) or are those designed so that their outcome can only be the stupidest statement available... Georgia On My Mind...
27th Jul 2006 4:42 am
crasha
Member Since: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 67
I got one of these dumb "poor vehicle choice" leaflets today in SW London.
These ecomentalists really do make me mad.
1. It says my 4x4 does 12 mpg, and I should get a car that does 25mpg, well actually I have never done less than that on a tank with mixed driving and got 30mpg+ at times.
2. It says I shouldnt drop the kids off a school - I have none, shouldn't go shopping - i walk anyway, Shouldn't drive to the gym - i ride my bike and am not a gym member. Shouldn't commute to business parks - i work at home !!!
then the leaflet bangs on about all sorts of other unsubstantiated "facts"
Why don't they spend their efforts baging onto the government about an integrated transport policy (i.e. spend some of that road tax and fuel tax).... campaign for fuel tax on air travel (we all know an inter continental flight kicks out more CO2 for one persons trip than any 4x4 in a years driving - i wonder where they all go on holiday?) why dont they target vans, trucks, HGVs, taxis and food miles and inefficient homes (boilers give out loads... inefficient electrical kit gives out loads of CO2).
I could go on but these idiots think they will save the planet by getting a few 4x4s off London streets.
:evil:
27th Jul 2006 3:38 pm
simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
they are very very sad moronically short sighted little people that why.
Even if a fact was inserted in their darkest and most taboo place, they would ignore it.
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