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7th Jun 2018 11:27 am
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
DG wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
It takes all sorts (to make a world).
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7th Jun 2018 12:14 pm
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
RRSTDV8 wrote:
But not if the Govt keeps its promises of matching EU funding for various sectors. If, instead of paying the EU who then pass that funding to those sectors, the Govt just funds them directly, there will be nothing left for the NHS at the end of it.
Right some promises were done also in the automotive sector to convince some to stay
As said lets see
Somebody is still waiting the 350M a week for the NHS but Brexit did not yet happen so who knows It takes all sorts (to make a world).
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7th Jun 2018 12:19 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5098
RRSTDV8 wrote:
Quote:
Of course, this is on top of the c.£10bn net EU contribution saving, so plenty for the NHS!
But not if the Govt keeps its promises of matching EU funding for various sectors. If, instead of paying the EU who then pass that funding to those sectors, the Govt just funds them directly, there will be nothing left for the NHS at the end of it.
The £10bn is what is left from the contribution saving if the Government continues to match EU funding to the sectors.
That doesn't include the £5bn net gain if the EU decides it wants WTO and the Government subsidises UK industry to the extent of EU tariffs they would suffer.
So that's £15bn.
Add in a couple of big fines (Microsoft, Google, Exxon, etc) each year that the EU currently levies and you'd be back up to £350m a week! Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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7th Jun 2018 2:47 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5098
Riccardo wrote:
Right some promises were done also in the automotive sector to convince some to stay
That still leaves the £5bn net....on top of the £10bn.
Quote:
As said lets see
Indeed.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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7th Jun 2018 2:49 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50962
He's good this Davis chap ...real good
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7th Jun 2018 3:26 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5098
David Davis' speech...the bit beyond what DG quoted wrote:
Major constitutional changes justify the use of referendums because the constitutional rights of our citizens are owned by the people and not by politicians. However, it is important that referendums are not misused simply as a snapshot of volatile changes of opinion, perhaps as a result of pressure of Government propaganda. That is why Donald Dewar and John Smith used to talk about the settled will of the population.
The concept of settled will is that of an idea that has taken root in the minds of the people, has resonance in their daily lives and is a stable part of the way in which they think the country should be run. Because referendums are supposed to reflect the settled will of the people, we need to have thresholds below which they do not carry the day.
I have been describing the grounds on which a referendum provides an acceptable and democratic outcome. Our view is that a reasonable level for the threshold that determines a settled will is that at least half the people vote, and a majority are in favour of the change proposed. That is a reasonable measure of the popular will. If the proposal receives the support of at least 25 per cent. of the total electorate, it should carry the day. That is pretty reasonable.
As the man said...it is pretty reasonable.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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7th Jun 2018 3:51 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50962
Wonderful ...but sadly that is not the point being made in my paragraph
7th Jun 2018 4:11 pm
Stuff
Member Since: 04 Sep 2015
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7th Jun 2018 5:36 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5098
DG wrote:
Wonderful ...but sadly that is not the point being made in my paragraph
No. Your point was to take out of context something David Davis said 16 years ago.
I was adding context to it.
The biggest similarity might be that it was a referendum called by the Government expecting to win and each Government spent about £10million on trying to do so...but lost.
David Davis thought it did not engage the public sufficiently, and despite all the fanfare still fewer than half voted in it...which would have failed DD's test.
The test that DD set in that speech for the public to be fully engaged was met, and then some, in the EU referendum.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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Last edited by highlands on 7th Jun 2018 6:33 pm. Edited 1 time in total
7th Jun 2018 6:33 pm
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6589
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7th Jun 2018 6:33 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50962
highlands wrote:
DG wrote:
Wonderful ...but sadly that is not the point being made in my paragraph
No. Your point was to take out of context something David Davis said 16 years ago.
I was adding context to it.
rubbish ...they are two elements of the subject.... I am not interested in the 'settled will' aspect nor the 'thresholds' .....I am interested in the parallels upon which my paragraph has foretold the story of why this referendum should not have taken place ...the electorate was not in the best possible position to make a judgement, those that voted for leave did hand back a blank piece of paper to parliament and they didn't know exactly what they were voting for.
Regards
Ray
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7th Jun 2018 7:39 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5098
DG wrote:
I am interested in the parallels
As your saying goes: 'rubbish'
You were after a cheap point, almost certainly copied from somewhere else.
The context of the regional assemblies referendum was completely different to the EU referendum.
There was no desire to have referenda on them, whereas over half the UK voted for parties that specifically promised an in-out EU referendum.
They were also completely different in terms of what could be presented.
There was no external element to the regional assemblies.
The outcome of a yes vote in the regional assemblies was completely in the gift of the UK Parliament to determine what control and conditions they had for them and yet it was not spelt out clearly whatsoever.
David Davis rightly pointed this out.
The EU referendum could never be in the total gift of the UK Parliament, so it would be inappropriate for the same criteria to be used, unless the Parliament determined to have the hardest of hard Brexits...which it still could, but won't because it is stuffed full of Remainers, unrepresentative of the UK population.
The aspects of a 'valid referendum' that are valid for comparison are the settled will and thresholds, both of which were met in the EU referendum.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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7th Jun 2018 10:31 pm
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